So much for NO changes at Jayco!!!!

[Cranemec]

Talk about putting all you're eggs in one basket.

The sky is falling.

[Misty123]

Originally Posted by Cranemec

Talk about putting all you're eggs in one basket.

The sky is falling.

Not me I own one of each.

[Katty]

With Tadd Jenkins leaving Entegra, the image I have of them has dropped many, many notches. If it was his idea, he must have something very, very special lined up because I know he loved his job, the people around him and the Jayco company. I have never, ever heard anyone say a bad word about Tadd.
We looked at MH's for 5 years before retiring a year ago and buying an Anthem. THE biggest reason we chose Entegra was, without a doubt, Tadd Jenkins. The dedication to his product, the backing from the company he had and the ability of him to tell me "something" and that "something" actually happening was unheard of. I don't like "sh...." sandwiches but if Tadd told me it was good for me.....I would eat it.
We started looking at Cornerstones for an early 2017 purchase. They just dropped off the wish list. Newmar makes a nice MH....looks like we will be talking to them.

[lowejug]

I personally love this"wash and drive " theory and think it's brilliant..quite frankly it should be mandatory for all motorhome manufacturers..
There is no reason when buying a 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 hundred thousand dollar motorhome the manufacturer can't send it out like this. It's obviously a un regulated industry that has no one really governing it. But why?
You buy a 12 thousand dollar Budget new car at the dealer who fills the tank and runs it through the car wash.. does anyone ever really have to bring there new cars back for any warranty work.. I think not.. at least nobody I know..
I was at Entegra factory and watched this building process and watched there employees putting these together. Seems they all could slow the pace to the point where these coaches could actually be sent to the dealer this way. If the dealers sales guys don't trash them which they do...I have first hand experienced this. ( that's another big problem in this industry) but another post😬

We the consumer should be able to write this huge big check that for many is there life savings and drive off into the sunset..
At most should maybe have a few adjustments over the first year or a minor replacement part... we really shouldn't need some 2 year appointment to fix 200 things... jmo

[Hayman]

We were in the area for 3 weeks getting work done at local shops and parts from the Entegra service center. We heard nothing about the elimination of the 2 year PDI and even talked with service about our previously scheduled PDI for next year. Nobody mentioned it wouldn't happen ! Maybe no new ones scheduled going forward ?

The change that has been implemented is you can only schedule a service appointment 6 months out and even though CS scheduled a paint appointment for us with S & S paint for June 2017 because it was November they wouldn't schedule a service appointment for us as it was beyond 6 months.

I think what many of us forget there are some very talented independent shops in the area that can do quality work. We have utilized a couple of them on 2 occasions and CS works hard to get them the parts and provide technical assistance.

Now back to Tadd Jenkins. We called Tadd and had a nice chat. Our purpose was
not to get the inside scoop and in fact told him we didn't want to discuss that meeting but to wish him and his family the best. He was clear that he's fine with what took place and stood by his convictions. We respect and admire him for that.

Tadd convinced us at the 2015 Tampa Super Show to go with an Entegra, he called us several times to ask if he could provide us any additional information. His incredible enthusiasm, concern, down to earth approach to co-workers, customers and people in general was surprising and he was also one of the first to contact us from Entegra ( Joyce was first, but no surprise there) when we had the tragic loss of our oldest grandson.

Tadd was not the typical President of a large company and that we believe is what we as Entegra owners have lost that neither the Bontragers or Thor understands !

[ditto]

Well said Brian!

[wmpbauer]

You know, I've been thinking about this a lot today. About 3 1/2 years ago I had a long talk with Tadd about quality in the luxury motor coach industry. I remember a time when the American auto industry had punch lists on every new car sold. That was the standard in the industry. Then a guy named W. Edwards Deming hooked up with some Japanese manufacturers that heretofore had been producing cheap tin autos. Their revolution nearly crushed the American automobile industry....

I suggested to Tadd, who was planning on building a new factory, that he and Entegra Coach, might just be in position to start a similar program with quality in the motor home industry. It was a topic that several of us in ECOA had been talking about...DSL417, dusty56, a few others. I know they also had similar conversations with Tadd. I don't think those conversations fell on deaf ears. I know we talked about standardization, wiring harnesses, supply chains, line inspection....all of it was heard. "Wash and Drive" is not an accident. The line techs have monthly meetings, discussing goals, delivery stats, suggestions, recognitions. All of that started on Tadd's watch....the beginnings of a culture of quality.

Here's the thing...it wasn't just Tadd. It's was all of them.....and they are all still there. Don't think for a second that Matt Thompson will throw that culture away, just because the champion felt it necessary to step away. Any business leader who understands just how difficult it is to change a culture that is in place, like the quality paradigm that has begun at Entegra Coach, will dismantle what's working.

Fact is, we don't know what other changes might be in the offing. Maybe another champion will step up. We might just want to get up early....kinda like they do every day in Middlebury, Indiana, and see if the sun comes up right on schedule...Sky still right there where it's supposed to be.

Remember our friend...he's a good man. Hope for tomorrow...it gets you through the day.


Pat Bauer, President
Entegra Coach Owners Association
www.entegraowners.com
2017 Anthem DEQ/Ford Edge

[brobox]

Well said Pat. I have also given this a lot of thought. Tadd is a super person with fantastic drive and a "getter done" attitude. I can see him opening an RV dealership in the area offering factory delivery type service that is not available now. What a win-win for everyone. As long as we are speculating, why not speculate in a positive manor. If I could buy from Lazy Days or Tadd Jenkins RV Sales, I know which one I would choose.

With the phasing out of PDI's, dealer choice will be more important. Entegra is doing nothing different than all other manufactures. Buying another brand coach still will not get anyone a PDI. For those that really need factory service (been there big time) it will hopefully be able to give them full attention to the service they need. They paid high dollars like we all did and deserve to have a perfect coach when brand new.

[Gary.Jones]

I seem to be one of the few owners who had no personal relationship with Tadd..... I just did my research on coaches, tried to be objective, and decided, on my own, to buy an Entegra product when it was time to buy a new coach. No one cajoled me, schmoozed me, called me on the phone to offer me some very nice inducement, nothing. I made my decision and wrote a big check. So, I take everyone else's opinion about Tadd. For me. this is not a loss of a personal friend. However, it is a possible loss in build quality that I am mourning, and to be clear, my opinion of build quality across the industry is not a high one. Too many of every coach that is built by every motorcoach manufacturer (and they are better than most towable units) that I know of come off the line with way more problems than they should. I also just watched the production line at Entegra and there were parts of it which were quite impressive, but also parts that were not impressive. The most noticeable factor was the speed that everyone was working, which seemed way too fast. I was told it was because everyone worked "piece work". That seems like a very dumb way to build machines. Everyone was working quickly and was almost constantly in motion. Then on the way back from Indiana, we toured the GM Corvette manufacturing plant which turns out 17 Corvettes an hour (by the way, the most expensive one of those cars I could buy for roughly 20% of what I paid for my Anthem). The thing that you noticed was that NO ONE was working fast.... the speed of the production and assembly line regulated what everyone was doing, and I saw no one rushing with what they were doing. The workers worked at a steady pace.... each tool needed was right there hanging on on some hydraulic rod which had it positioned where it was needed. Parts of the process were automated. The point is that the whole process was totally different from the making of a motorhome. The other obvious thing was that there were inspectors there virtually at each step... gauges in hand measuring door space and door plumbness. Smoothness of hatch opening and closing. Problems were flagged or resolved at that step. The first step that we watched was two ladies inspecting trim pieces under very intense lights for blemishes in the paint or problems in the fiberglass underneath. If it was not perfect, it was set off to the side and another was examined.

So the point I am trying to make is that the whole concept of motorhome production to me is not a good one, and it is not one that leads to "wash and sell" unit quality. When I was at Middlebury 3 weeks ago, what was obvious was that 1/3 of the RV pads were occupied by 2016 and 2017 coaches. For the owners that I talked to, they were there for major problems that had to be dealt with by factory level techs, not dealer level techs. They were there just like I was there last year because there was so much water leaking into the walls of my coach 8 months after I bought it that all lights were out and not working. That, to me, is the problem with the whole industry. There is a writer, Greg Gerber, who has written a ten installment blog entitled "RV Industry Death Spiral". It should be mandatory reading for everyone in the RV industry and all RV owners. Here is the link to the first installment and you can take it from there. I dare you to find 4 statements/assertions he makes that you seriously disagree with out of the 10 multipage installments to his blog. RV Industry Death Spiral – Part 2: Manufacturers in race to the bottom | RV Daily Report Hear me clearly..... Entegra was/is no worse, and was/is considerably better than the industry at large, which is why we bought an Entegra Coach and not one made by someone else.

What I have been arguing for a long time is that this situation is produced, in large part, because there is no organization or no association who represents only one thing...... RV (motorcoach) OWNERS/Buyers. There is no organization that is there to just represent US. There are associations for RV manufacturers and other organizations for RV dealers, and there are organizations which seem to be about organizing rallys and publishing magazines and offering services, and I belong to all of them, but from what I see, there is no organization that sets standards for manufacturing, sets guidelines for build quality, that rates manufacturers who set standards for dealers that sell their coaches dealing with who dealers have to hire as techs (their certifications and qualifications) and what kinds of facilities they must have for repair, and how much parts stock they must keep available for factory repairs, and that rates manufacturers on owner satisfaction with their coach at delivery and at one and two years into ownership. It is amazing to me that coach builders do not have specific requirement for their dealers as a pre-condition for them being able to sell a manufacturer's coaches. Just amazing!! My opinion is that because we have no organization that does nothing but protect owners, then we are left with the situation that we now have..... things are done to everyone else's standards (for example, it is OK to have bad orange peal in the paint as long as it is not further away from a joint than one or two inches) but there are no standards for purchasers.... purchasers must "pays their money, and takes their chances". If I had the option to buy a coach for $400,000 that had no guarantees other than that someone, someplace, sometime would try to fix my problems, versus a coach that had a 99% chance of having no problems, and me spending no time sitting in dealer parking lots in the middle of every trip that I planned, for $440,000 I know that I would spend the extra $40,000 up front. Period. Maybe you wouldn't and maybe thousands of other people would not make that decision and that is the "reality" of the world, but that is the decision I would make. Additional money well spent.... enjoyment of my purchase much greater.

This is not an attack on Entegra..... this is a criticism of the whole industry. It is just not set up the way that it should be. If the auto industry was run this way, we would have massive problems, and our auto industry would have already died. If I buy a new Honda or Cadillac or Corvette or BMW and have to take it back to the dealer for ANYTHING over the first two or three years, I am disappointed and unhappy with my choice. That is the way that it should be for motorcoaches also. JMHO JMPE

Gary

[Johnnypac]

Gary, excellent observation. Seems the entire RV industry is built on speed in production, get as many units out the door fast without any kind of quaility...just enough, then ship parts to the RV Owner so they can fix it themselves.

[HarleyOutlaw]

Gary well said. I spent a career in the fire service and all of our apparatus was built by reputable manufacturers. Hand built and customized to our specs. All of them had problems upon delivery that kept them off the front line sometimes for months while city mechanics repaired what should have never been a problem in the first place.

I have experienced this, as we all have, in the RV industry.

It would be a lot of work to set up an organization like you suggested but I believe it would be well worth the effort.

I found Entegra through this web site. Met Tadd briefly at Hershey and spoke a couple of sentences with him. I am not shying away from the brand because he is gone. I will continue to do my research and save my pennies for the day I can say I own an Entegra Coach. For my money, I have not found a better product that meets our needs than EC does.

[Victory Blue]

Gary,

Thank you for your thoughtful and complete analysis of the state of build quality in the RV industry. Your post, and Pat's mention of Deming, brought back memories of when I started the process of instituting TQM (Total Quality Management) in the engineering company I headed in the 90s. Our basic definition of TQM then was 1. meet customer expectations; and 2. continuously improve the process. While reaching these "goals" is a complicated process they are still the cornerstones of TQM and must be understood, accepted and adhered to by everyone in a company that hopes to benefit from TQM.

Deming's quality ideas were first offered to US auto makers. They declined so he took his ideas to the Japanese who implemented his tenets and, as Pat said, almost brought down the US auto industry. It sounds simplistic, but what you saw at the Corvette plant is TQM in action.

The US auto industry had to face extinction because of Japanese dominance and changed their strategies to compete. Unfortunately, in the RV industry there are no outside forces to contend with so we have to depend on the good intentions of each manufacturer.

I like your idea of an organization that represent owners and whose main reason for being is improving build quality and setting standards for dealers. Let's start one.

[dave&ginny]

The only way to change to pay structure of the employees would be to build a plant in another area of the country. All the manufactures are fighting for good employees and the piece work system is the norm in that area. It's my understanding, that under this pay structure, the worker makes more money in a shorter period of time. So to get these workers to change would be difficult.

In 2015 we bought our Entegra and I couldn't be happier. Yes I did meet Tadd and had dinner with him at the last "Spring Fling" and I also met Joyce. These are 2 wonderful people that made me feel like they cared as much for my Entegra as I did. Is that warm and caring feeling over at Entegra? I really hope not because we are planing on buying another coach within a few years. I will say that anything with the name Thor on it worries me a great deal because they seem to lack passion for their product. Entgra will lose customers to Newmar if they can't convey that passion

As for the RV build quality and production.....

I certainly understand the frustration some have with their MH and I would love to see the same build consistency that the auto industry enjoys. But....when a Corvette has 2 bathrooms, heated floors and is cross bred with a house, there's no comparison with complexity. With Tadd being removed from the equation, Entegra will have to work hard to earn the trust of future buyers including repeat buyers like me. The manufacture that offers the best quality and value will get my next check.

[wam16]

Pat (post 91)brings up a very significant point, which brings into question why are MH manufacturers not embracing quality improvements as the Japanese have in the automotive industry. The Japanese have been successful in transforming their manufacturing culture to one where the workers are extremely focused and obsessed in making daily quality improvements in everything they do. Culture shifts of this nature take years to become fully accepted and adopted by the workers. It is also paramount that the organization have a Champion who is leading this culture shift. Without a Champion all culture shifts die. For those with Manufacturing experience, all will attest to the fact that the direction and attention of the work force is based on what is important to the Boss. If the organization is fortunate enough to have the Boss and Champion of the quality improvement culture shift initiative being one and the same, the probability of the culture shift is greatly increased. Culture shifts are not easy for many reasons, but they take many, many years with continuous nurturing. It is naive to believe that because a company (with a real Champion/Boss as it appears Tadd was at Entegra who has started a quality improvement culture shift) will continue that initiative in the absence of its Champion. If the new Boss of Entegra has the same motivation as Tadd and continues to Champion the quality improvement initiative, then Entegra has the opportunity to become the world's leader in producing "Wash and Drive" motorhomes. The workers will continue their quality improvement efforts and the culture shift will slowly continue. If however, the new Boss is more interested in, for example cost control initiatives, then you can assume quality improvement activities will be one of the first things to be eliminated. I'm hoping the new Boss will continue down the path Tadd has started. The whole RV industry desperately needs this type of leadership, where quality improvements are made daily on the production line leading to truly high quality products, free from defects.

Allen