Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Entegra Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-11-2019, 07:38 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Gasman 2's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Caldwell , Ohio 43724
Posts: 1,338
Turbo jack,
I checked the oil temperature on another Cummins X that had been on the road all day so it was at temp.
Checked at the oil filter base and temp was at 190 and the gauge on dash was displaying 200. The pan temp was actually 10 degrees cooler.

With the people I have spoke to today at 260 degrees conventional oil begins to break down.

Gary I donít know when you planned to change the oil but
I believe I would be changing it now and sending a sample out to be analyzed.

Gary my intention is not to confuse you or cause anymore stress.........just a genuine concern.

Richard
__________________
Gasman 2
2016 Anthem 42 RBQ
Toad 2017 GMC Sierra 4X4
Gasman 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-11-2019, 10:19 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Gary.Jones's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,788
Blog Entries: 1
Because of the feedback that I was receiving around noon, I decided to bypass Spartan and call Cummins CS. The fellow that I got on the phone didn't know but then did research through their literature and specs for the X15 engine and he read right out of the book to me.... engine oil temp thermostat opens at 260 degrees, so he and the rep that was on the conference call this morning are quoting chapter and verse from the X15 tech specs and they are quoting the same story. I don't know what to believe. I'd sure like to see the specs on the ISX-15 as it is virtually the same engine. One would think that the engine manufacturer would know what their engine can withstand so I am inclined to believe them. However, I am also willing to push it further and further until I am convinced that I know the truth.

I am open to all information.

Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
Gary.Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 05:07 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
brobox's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 25,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
However, I am also willing to push it further and further until I am convinced that I know the truth.

I am open to all information.

Gary
You have mentioned you have put 14,000 miles on your coach and it's about a year old. It's due for an oil change anyhow. https://www.cummins.com/engines/x15-...20RV%20Engines

Taking Richards advise, have the oil changed with an oil sample and see if the oil has been over heated. Seems to me that would tell more what your engine is doing and if it has normal wear.

Can Cummins email you that page to put your mind at easy? Seems they have already done the research on their engines.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
brobox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 06:27 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
Gasman 2's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Caldwell , Ohio 43724
Posts: 1,338
Chuck, what is your oil temperature running on your coach since you have the same engine and glass dash?

Not that this has anything with the issue, what is Cummins recommending for their X engine? Seem some OEMs are moving to 10w30 from 15w40.

Richard
__________________
Gasman 2
2016 Anthem 42 RBQ
Toad 2017 GMC Sierra 4X4
Gasman 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 07:46 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
brobox's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 25,115
Richard, I haven't paid any attention to that and probably never will unless I get a CEL. I monitor engine temp and that's about it. May check transmission temp if pulling a grade.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
brobox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 08:39 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
Hayman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Port Charlotte, Fl
Posts: 1,338
HI Gary, I think the advice of getting an oil change and oil analysis is the route you should go as an oil change is due at the mileage you have and the oil analysis should provide answers. You may want to consider Rotella T 6 , 5W-40 full synthetic or similar.
__________________
Sue & Brian Ashworth & Rizzy( adopted Boxer)
2016 Anthem 44A, 2018 GMC Canyon Denali,
Hayman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 02:24 PM   #35
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,582
Gary, the info I can find on the isx15 is the oil temp thermostat opens at 235.
Rollin101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2019, 03:17 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
brobox's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 25,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollin101 View Post
Gary, the info I can find on the isx15 is the oil temp thermostat opens at 235.
Also lots of trucker forum post saying the same thing and 250 is burnt oil https://www.thetruckersreport.com/tr...ew-isx.173701/
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
brobox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 07:54 AM   #37
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Cypress, Tx.
Posts: 426
I had sent Cummings an email asking what the oil temp should be, where the oil cooler thermostat opens up and what temp the engine shuts down for my ISX15-600 engine.

Here is response.

Thank you for contacting Cummins. Typically your oil temperature would be around 230 F. The oil cooler is fed by the engine coolants, which are around 190 F – 200 F. The engineshutdown, would only occur after multiple warnings from the various sensors in the engine. Mainly a check engine light or high temperature message. If you are having temperature issues, however, I would strongly advise that you take it to a Cummins locationto have the issue investigated. For authorized service center locations please visit: http://locator.cummins.com
__________________
2014 Foretravel IH45
Houston (Cypress), TX.
Turbojack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 08:15 AM   #38
Senior Member
 
Gasman 2's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Caldwell , Ohio 43724
Posts: 1,338
Turbojack, the
numbers that Cummins is giving you are consistent with what Iím seeing on three of our Cummins X engines. Like I posted before the Peteís analog oil temperature gauge shows red line beginning at 250 degrees.
__________________
Gasman 2
2016 Anthem 42 RBQ
Toad 2017 GMC Sierra 4X4
Gasman 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 08:46 AM   #39
Senior Member
 
Gary.Jones's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,788
Blog Entries: 1
Well, I thought that I had the rest of the story, and it was solved, then....

Yesterday, I needed to get from Casa Grande, AZ to Yuma, AZ. This is 180 miles of Arizona flat with a pretty good mountain climb right before you descend down into Yuma. I took everyone's advice and decided to avail myself of the SPEEDCO located about 2 miles from where I was staying at Exit 200 on I-10. As an aside, I got the $25 oil analysis (which I don't know how to interpret at this point) but my charge was $480 for 52 quarts of Rotella (so $455 for the standard oil, lube, and 2 filters (no genny service) that used to run me about $330). Anyhow, 2 hours later, I was on my way to Yuma. You remember that I have been told by Cummins and Spartan to run it like I stole it, and that meant that I simply used it the way that I always use it. I turned the ACC off, turned the Valor TPMS on, and set the cruise for 69 mph (75 mph speed-limit) and off we went. Set my dash so that it always showed me oil temperature.

Over maybe the first 40 miles, the oil temperature gradually increased from cold to 250, and then steadily increase to 259 degrees. And at 259 degrees, the temperature stabilized and then began dropping a little at a time for 10-15 miles until it got down to 248 or 245 and then up and down a little and eventually got down to 239 degrees, and then hovered near there. We stopped at a rest stop for lunch and the engine oil temp never got up much past 255 after lunch and usually in the 240-245 range. That is the way that it ran. No Shut downs, no CELs, and the temp varying by terrain up and down from 240-250 let say.

As I said earlier, there is a pretty good rise right before you go into Yuma on I-8, maybe 1000-1500 feet or more (?) with most trucks down around 35-40 mph. I left the cruise set at 69 and we passed a bunch of trucks in 6th, and then the coach downshifted to 5th and we were down to maybe like 50 and the oil temps started up again (coolant moved from 180 +/- to 183 +/-, and this time, did not stop at 259, but hit 262 at which point I got a CEL (no Shut-down icon) but a CEL (with checkmark). I let the CEL show and at this point foot-fed the diesel but basically kept pouring the juice to it, and we climbed for maybe another 30 seconds to a minute when we crested the hill, and the CEL went off, the oil temp stayed at 262 for ~ a minute and as the CEL went off, oil temp started to fall as we descended the back side of the mountains.

So, its pretty clear that the CEL light comes on if you go past 260 degrees, and my guess is that the oil thermostat open at 259-260 and stays open down to about 240 where it closes or stays open thereafter. If the temp exceeds 260 and the thermostat doesn't open fast enough, then the CEL comes on until the temp falls below 259.

Now, I am sure that is what my engine did and how it was working. Whether that is right or wrong is a matter we are discussing. My sense is that this X15 engine is a very different horse than the 450 ISL. Cummins has been quite sure that this engine runs hotter than other engines in their line and the oil cooler and thermostat are set higher than other Cummins engines. Now, my experience confirms what I have been told, but I dont think this 605 should be throwing any codes even when climbing a mountain so I am going to keep pursuing this whole conundrum. My opinion is that the thermostat should probably open at 250 instead of 260 or the ECM is programmed too tight to the 260 degree opening point. Maybe a rapid rise on a big upgrade leads the thermostat to be late in opening. Not sure. Otherwise, the X15 handles normal Arizona driving just fine, but that mountain CEL makes me intent to keep asking questions.

I will be communicating with Spartan and Cummins again today with this new information and see what they say.


Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
Gary.Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 10:23 AM   #40
Senior Member
 
LWBAZ's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,916
Gary, I’ve read info on oil temperature from a wide variety of sources over the past several days. I can’t verify that any of it is gospel truth, but the general consensus is that name-brand conventional motor oils are perfectly fine up to 250 degrees and don’t break down until they approach 275 degrees. What happens between 250 and 275 isn't exactly clear, but if the oil doesn’t break down until it hits 275 I wouldn’t be overly concerned about 260.

Full synthetic oils (like the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 Brian recommended in an earlier post) are widely regarded as being good to 300 degrees if not higher.

Assuming that info is reasonably accurate and assuming the oil temp thermostat on an X15 engine is in fact set at 260 degrees, I’d be inclined to run full synthetic oil, not because something horrible is going to happen if you don’t but simply for the additional temperature margin. The price difference is relatively insignificant and the extra heat tolerance would provide some peace of mind if nothing else.

That said, it seems strange that Cummins would have the oil temp thermostat set at 260 degrees and have the engine monitoring system programmed to trigger a Check Engine Light at 262 degrees. I commend you for continuing to pursue this mystery and look forward to what you’re able to learn.
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
LWBAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 10:33 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
Gary.Jones's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 8,788
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks VERY much for your time Larry.

I have another call into Spartan and Cummins and have sent them a copy of my oil analysis which I will post up here also. They will call me back later today. I now understand that I got a clean bill of health on almost all aspects of the oil analysis, but I got two warnings on the oil analysis by SPEEDCO..... V40C and V100C which appears to be a reading of viscosity of the oil done at 40 degrees Centigrade and also again at 100 degrees centigrade. Haven't figured out if it is too much or little viscosity at this point but that will come next (Im betting on too much). No red line readings on anything.

And fairly consistent with your information Larry, it appears that I got my shutdown code when my recorded (ECM history) temperatures (maybe false reading from a defective sensor) hit 276 degrees for a few seconds.

Appreciate all the help guys. Thank you.

Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
Gary.Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2019, 12:20 PM   #42
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Cypress, Tx.
Posts: 426
Yesterday I was looking at he wiring diagram for the engine. Only one oil temp probe. That is hardwired to the ECM. My take is anything that is recorded in the ECM is what the ecm see's, Now what your dash see's could be another story since it is seeing it thru the bus.

I sure would like to see what other X15 owners are seeing. By buddy's Cornerstone has been in the shop for a month and he said going to be a few more weeks before he gets is back. On trip back to Houston we will see what the oil temp is on his X15
__________________
2014 Foretravel IH45
Houston (Cypress), TX.
Turbojack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some things I have learned about my new 2019 Cornerstone - Part 4 Gary.Jones Entegra Owner's Forum 68 10-21-2018 06:18 PM
Some things I have learned on new 2019 Cornerstone - Part 3 Gary.Jones Entegra Owner's Forum 178 09-09-2018 07:42 AM
Some things I have learned on new 19 Cornerstone Gary.Jones Entegra Owner's Forum 77 08-12-2018 01:34 PM
Some Things I have learned about my New 2019 Cornerstone-Part 2 Gary.Jones Entegra Owner's Forum 76 06-17-2018 03:35 PM
Learned some things about leveling okmunky iRV2.com General Discussion 14 05-02-2012 10:01 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.