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Old 06-17-2021, 07:26 AM   #1
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Spartan versus Freightliner DEF Head ( see correction in post#5 )

At the AIM rally in Auburndale Robert Barnard representing Freightliner rep stated they “resolved” the DEF head problem.**So the question was asked about the FL source of DEF heads that were better than what Spartan uses.

Recently Brett Davis shared some interesting statistics about the service experience at NIRVC and the huge disparity between DEF head replacement on FL versus Spartan.**He also wrote that Spartan does not share information on the source of their DEF heads as it is proprietary information.

Yesterday I got a response**from Robert Barnard who stated: “Freightliner Custom Chassis uses a proprietary DEF Header which was engineered and designed by employees at Freightliner Truck.**Our current fail rate at Freightliner Custom Chassis is around ½ of 1 percent.”

While some may argue that percentage is not meaningful without knowing the sample size and date covered it is at least an indication along with other information of the probable lesser incidence of FL failures.**Also I have not seen the same statistic from Spartan.**We see a lot of reports of failures but don’t know how many failures as a percentage of Spartan chassis.

The somewhat good news is that it appears the technology exists to make a better DEF head.**Possible bad news is that NHTSA and EPA will not do anything to reduce or eliminate the current requirements because of this low failure rate reported by FL.**I also would not be surprised if some in the EPA are not interested in doing anything as all these failures just means more oil burners not running.

Meanwhile for those of us with Spartan chassis it makes me feel like we are riding on a time bomb with no way of knowing how much time we have before it fails, how far we can go on derate and shutdown, and whether there is going to be a replacement head available any time soon.**We also don’t have solid information on how to avoid the problem since even the various procedures seem to have failed.

I expect that many travel plans will be revised or abandoned because of the potential**for failure and as information becomes more widely known that sales of diesel RVs will drop.**It would be nice to know what Spartan is planning besides just waiting on Shaw for a DEF head that works.
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Old 06-17-2021, 07:45 AM   #2
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Now that I know there are no Def heads in the inventory to bail me out, staying put.
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:41 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butte64 View Post
At the AIM rally in Auburndale Robert Barnard representing Freightliner rep stated they “resolved” the DEF head problem.**So the question was asked about the FL source of DEF heads that were better than what Spartan uses.

Recently Brett Davis shared some interesting statistics about the service experience at NIRVC and the huge disparity between DEF head replacement on FL versus Spartan.**He also wrote that Spartan does not share information on the source of their DEF heads as it is proprietary information.

Yesterday I got a response**from Robert Barnard who stated: “Freightliner Custom Chassis uses a proprietary DEF Header which was engineered and designed by employees at Freightliner Truck.**Our current fail rate at Freightliner Custom Chassis is around ½ of 1 percent.”

While some may argue that percentage is not meaningful without knowing the sample size and date covered it is at least an indication along with other information of the probable lesser incidence of FL failures.**Also I have not seen the same statistic from Spartan.**We see a lot of reports of failures but don’t know how many failures as a percentage of Spartan chassis.

The somewhat good news is that it appears the technology exists to make a better DEF head.**Possible bad news is that NHTSA and EPA will not do anything to reduce or eliminate the current requirements because of this low failure rate reported by FL.**I also would not be surprised if some in the EPA are not interested in doing anything as all these failures just means more oil burners not running.

Meanwhile for those of us with Spartan chassis it makes me feel like we are riding on a time bomb with no way of knowing how much time we have before it fails, how far we can go on derate and shutdown, and whether there is going to be a replacement head available any time soon.**We also don’t have solid information on how to avoid the problem since even the various procedures seem to have failed.

I expect that many travel plans will be revised or abandoned because of the potential**for failure and as information becomes more widely known that sales of diesel RVs will drop.**It would be nice to know what Spartan is planning besides just waiting on Shaw for a DEF head that works.
Jerry, in the sentence I've highlighted in your post above, did you mean to write "Freightliner" instead of "Spartan"? I'm asking because the source of Spartan's DEF heads is well known to be Shaw Development in Bonita Springs, Florida - https://www.shawdev.com.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:02 AM   #4
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Spartan versus Freightliner DEF Head

Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ View Post
Jerry, in the sentence I've highlighted in your post above, did you mean to write "Freightliner" instead of "Spartan"? I'm asking because the source of Spartan's DEF heads is well known to be Shaw Development in Bonita Springs, Florida - https://www.shawdev.com.


Oops, well I tried to edit a correction but don't see how to do it. Seems like I can edit a reply but not the original post.
Good catch, thanks.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:14 AM   #5
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Tried to correct orignal post. It should read: He also wrote that Freightliner does not share information on the source of their DEF heads as it is proprietary information.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:56 AM   #6
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Some interesting information that I just discovered, but others may have already known. I'll post it just as a refresher.

Since February 2020, Spartan is out of the Emergency Vehicle market as it sold that division to REV Group, Inc. It retained the Spartan name and logo for commercial, fleet, delivery, and specialty vehicles. The proclaimed "core" and focus of the Specialty vehicle division is in the premium RV market.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/spa...ml#post5795050

Talk is cheap, but if Spartan truly is committed to the RV market as the core of their Specialty division, then DEF issues and input from angry, frustrated dealers, service departments, and customers should not be falling on deaf ears.

Once again, we don't have data, but the decision to withhold replacement DEF heads makes it clear Spartan knows it has a problem within the Specialty Division. That raises two questions. Is the DEF problem also affecting the other divisions to the same degree, and is the Specialty Division a large enough money maker for Spartan that drastic corrective measures need to be taken, now?

Without data, the first question cannot be answered. Possibly the head shortage is due to failures throughout all the Spartan chassis products and Specialty chassis are getting the "left overs." If so, that could answer, at least in part, the second question.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:02 PM   #7
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We know Spartan is not going to say anything public, but maybe Entregra will come out with a public statement as to how to get coaches back on the road.

Now would be a perfect time for someone to come up with a bypass kit.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:30 PM   #8
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Jerry, you can only edit a post within one hour after making it. Once that time limit has expired, a moderator or administrator can edit the post for you. Exactly how to go about making such a request isn’t completely clear (a “Request an Edit” option under “Qucik Links” would be nice), but here’s what I would try:

On the banner near the top of this page (just under the big iRV2 logo), click on “More” then click on the “Contact Us” option. Under "Subject" click on “Other.” In the "Message" block, enter something like:

My irv2 ID is Butte64. I recently initiated this thread:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/spa...ad-541548.html

In the second paragraph of the first post in the thread, there is a sentence that currently reads, “He also wrote that Spartan does not share information on the source of their DEF heads as it is proprietary information.”

The word “Spartan” should have been “Freightliner.” Please edit that post to make that change. Thank you.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:42 PM   #9
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I edited the thread title to reflect a correction in post #5. If we were to edit the post it would disrupt the flow of the thread. If you use the report function , the site team can do this for you.
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Old 06-17-2021, 02:23 PM   #10
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I edited the thread title to reflect a correction in post #5. If we were to edit the post it would disrupt the flow of the thread. If you use the report function , the site team can do this for you.
Thanks Cliff. I used the report function as suggested but it will be interesting to see if anything happens because there is this note under the entry box:
Note: This is ONLY to be used to report problem posts (rude or inappropriate), spam, content that needs to be relocated and duplicates.
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Old 06-17-2021, 02:29 PM   #11
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Any problem post can be reported. We’ll review it and respond. I just responded to yours
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Old 06-17-2021, 02:38 PM   #12
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The minute my pre delivered 21 CS def head (gen 5) failed at NIRVC Atlanta., I ordered a spare which I carry with me. Todd installed a gen 6 and I ordered a gen 6 for my spare as well as a spare def filter. I am super annoyed that I had to dig deep in my pockets to purchase one, but with all the failures, I wanted to be covered. Being stranded for days, in some unknown corner of the country, with three dogs and a cranky DW is not on my want list. Now I'm super glad I have one.

If I were FL I would not want to share my secret sauce with any other motor coach company. Good for them, C'mon Spartan. Get off your asses and get this issue resolved!
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Old 06-17-2021, 03:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy110 View Post
The minute my pre delivered 21 CS def head (gen 5) failed at NIRVC Atlanta., I ordered a spare which I carry with me. Todd installed a gen 6 and I ordered a gen 6 for my spare as well as a spare def filter. I am super annoyed that I had to dig deep in my pockets to purchase one, but with all the failures, I wanted to be covered. Being stranded for days, in some unknown corner of the country, with three dogs and a cranky DW is not on my want list. Now I'm super glad I have one.

If I were FL I would not want to share my secret sauce with any other motor coach company. Good for them, C'mon Spartan. Get off your asses and get this issue resolved!
I am sure with the current conditions of no DEF heads in stock or soon to be, many with summer travel plans now wished that had ordered a spare DEF head. It is an absolute crime that a new coach owner has to spend the additional coast of a DEF head for insurance his new coach will make it across country and back.


FL has to be laughing all the way to the bank on the canceled Cornerstone order post alone. One canceled, one did not complete and one that will move to another brand on the next purchase. And that is just in one afternoon on one post. I wonder how far it will continue before Spartan decides to act?
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Old 06-17-2021, 03:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy110 View Post
The minute my pre delivered 21 CS def head (gen 5) failed at NIRVC Atlanta., I ordered a spare which I carry with me. Todd installed a gen 6 and I ordered a gen 6 for my spare as well as a spare def filter. I am super annoyed that I had to dig deep in my pockets to purchase one, but with all the failures, I wanted to be covered. Being stranded for days, in some unknown corner of the country, with three dogs and a cranky DW is not on my want list. Now I'm super glad I have one.

If I were FL I would not want to share my secret sauce with any other motor coach company. Good for them, C'mon Spartan. Get off your asses and get this issue resolved!
Same here. I am so glad I have a spare. It’s cheap insurance
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