Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Entegra Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-29-2021, 02:30 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
LWBAZ's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 2,281
Steer Axle Tuning–Spartan K3 Chassis–2018 Cornerstone

Rather than make a very long post, attached is a PDF file which includes, text, photos and other images summarizing a very interesting project in which I recently participated. Also involved were three individuals from Reyco Granning (supplier of various suspension packages to Spartan RV) and two individuals from Bilstein (a large multi-national supplier of shock absorbers and related suspension components).

The write-up covers steer axle changes to improve handling and drivability of our 2018 Entegra Cornerstone which is on a Spartan K3 chassis. My belief, subject to confirmation by Reyco Granning and Bilstein, is that most of the changes we tested would be equally applicable to coaches built on a Spartan K2 chassis.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Spartan K3 Chassis Front Suspension Tuning.pdf (871.6 KB, 30 views)
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
LWBAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-29-2021, 03:11 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
seeg's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Yakima, WA
Posts: 1,015
Great write up. Thanks. As I recall, my 2018 did not come with E-Z Steer. Presumably your results would be different on a E-Z Steer coach, but maybe not. Any thoughts? I’m not unhappy with the way my 2021 handles but wouldn’t be adverse to an improvement.
__________________
Dan and Pam-Natalie-GSD's Sofi & Lindee
2021 Cornerstone 45 B
2018 Cornerstone 45 W (sold)
2020 Chevy Tahoe, etrailer XHD 10500 tow bar, Demco SMI AirForce 1.
seeg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 03:34 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
LWBAZ's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 2,281
Dan, you are correct that my 2018 Cornerstone doesn't have E-Z Steer.

Thinking about what E-Z Steer is designed to do, my sense is that the anti-sway bar would still improve handling on curvy roads by controlling body roll (which E-Z Steer is not designed to do). As for my belief that the anti-sway bar would also be beneficial in crosswinds, E-Z Steer is supposed to help in those conditions. So it's probably an open question as to whether there would be an additional benefit provided by the anti-sway bar in that situation.

I'll put it this way. Based how much better my coach drove with the anti-sway bar installed I wouldn't hesitate to install one even if I had a newer coach with E-Z Steer. Same for the reconfigured Bilstein shocks.
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
LWBAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 04:30 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
brobox's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 26,922
Thank you Larry, an excellent and very informative write up. What a great project to be involved with. I am sure you have had the opportunity to drive a 21 CS with the Valid air system and EZ steer. How did you find comparison? I already see a need for shock improvement on the 21.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
brobox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 04:57 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
LWBAZ's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 2,281
Chuck, I haven’t had an opportunity to drive a 2021 Cornerstone with E-Z Steer. I have driven the following coaches equipped with E-Z Steer (Entegra) or Comfort Drive (Newmar):

- 2018 Newmar Essex (Spartan)
- 2019 Newmar Mountain Aire (Freightliner)
- 2010 Newmar Mountain Aire (Spartan)
- 2019 Newmar London Aire (Freightliner)
- 2020 Entegra Anthem (Spartan)
- 2020 Entegra Anthem (Spartan)

Regarding my impressions of E-Z Steer/Comfort Drive, I could take it or leave it. That said, I will readily acknowledge that my test drives were 10 to 20 miles, whereas friends who have it tell me the advantages are much more apparent on longer drives.

Regarding your comment about needing shock improvement, I have no idea why Spartan insists on doing their own tuning of Bilstein shocks. I do recall various Entegra owners changing from Bilstein shocks to Koni and reporting significantly less porpoising.
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
LWBAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 05:10 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
brobox's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 26,922
Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ View Post
Chuck, I haven’t had an opportunity to drive a 2021 Cornerstone with E-Z Steer. I have driven the following coaches equipped with E-Z Steer (Entegra) or Comfort Drive (Newmar):

- 2018 Newmar Essex (Spartan)
- 2019 Newmar Mountain Aire (Freightliner)
- 2010 Newmar Mountain Aire (Spartan)
- 2019 Newmar London Aire (Freightliner)
- 2020 Entegra Anthem (Spartan)
- 2020 Entegra Anthem (Spartan)

Regarding my impressions of E-Z Steer/Comfort Drive, I could take it or leave it. That said, I will readily acknowledge that my test drives were 10 to 20 miles, whereas friends who have it tell me the advantages are much more apparent on longer drives.

Regarding your comment about needing shock improvement, I have no idea why Spartan insists on doing their own tuning of Bilstein shocks. I do recall various Entegra owners changing from Bilstein shocks to Koni and reporting significantly less porpoising.
What I was curious about was the Valid air system over the Hadley. I notice a considerable difference in side sway over the 19. The EZ steer, I am finally getting use to. The 1/4 mark is the most comfortable for me. Any higher and it is ghost steering to me in normal conditions. At 1/4 turn I still feel the coach, but the truck ruts in the right lane are no longer felt.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
brobox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2021, 05:24 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
LWBAZ's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 2,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox View Post
What I was curious about was the Valid air system over the Hadley. I notice a considerable difference in side sway over the 19. The EZ steer, I am finally getting use to. The 1/4 mark is the most comfortable for me. Any higher and it is ghost steering to me in normal conditions. At 1/4 turn I still feel the coach, but the truck ruts in the right lane are no longer felt.
Good info Chuck - thanks. Maybe Spartan's opinion is that air suspension negates the need for an anti-sway bar, but the bar made a big difference on my coach. On yours, maybe not so much.

That said, anti-sway bars are pretty much ubiquitous on cars and light trucks these days, so given a choice I'd want one on a motorhome as well.
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
LWBAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2021, 08:45 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Gary.Jones's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 9,816
Blog Entries: 1
I have never driven an easy steer coach, but I have a hard time imagining how much easier my coach "needs" to drive than the way it drives right now. At least up to the COVID period of inactivity, I was able to drive my coach 8-10 hours with no noticeable fatigue or problem. That is in high cross wind and well rutted blacktop.

Maybe I really need to try it, but my guess is that this is an example of a problem that really did not need fixing on 95% of all coaches and the motivation to add it was more due to Newmar deciding to add it to their coaches and Entegra wanting to say.... "Us too !!!!!".

My coach is a dream to drive.

Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
Gary.Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2021, 08:47 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Gary.Jones's Avatar


 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 9,816
Blog Entries: 1
Now Dee has said that this Cornerstone is harder for her to walk around in when in motion than our 2015 was, but that is not something that I feel or experience or feel in the driver seat, but she knows what she is talking about usually and so I believe her.

Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
Gary.Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2021, 09:57 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
bevandtomH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,522
Larry, excellent info. Maybe you are not at liberty to say, but surprised EC did not have people there to see tests for themselves.
I would think they would have a vested interest on any improvements of the brand first hand.
I have no axe to grind with Spartan, but if I were EC, I would not rely solely on what they tell me about sub components.
Must have been fun to be in on this.
__________________
___________
Tom & Bev, Riley(3yo Lab)
2014 Entegra Aspire 44b
2017 Jeep JKU
bevandtomH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2021, 10:03 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 195
Cool test. Glad to hear they allowed you to be part of it. Assuming they have options for solid axles too? Specifically the roll bar?
__________________
2016 Entegra Aspire 42RBQ
Douglee25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2021, 11:41 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Nowabeachbum's Avatar
 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Estero, FL
Posts: 2,301
Thanks, Larry for the great write-up! Like most, I really enjoy the Cornerstone ride but do feel it’s shortcomings. To be able to retrofit a swaybar would certainly improve its drivability!
I would definitely be interested in a kit with any or all of those components. The ping tanks sound like an interesting idea.
__________________
Gary & Leigh
2019 Entegra Cornerstone 45Y,
2010 Seneca, 2011 & 2014 Anthem, 2017, 2018 Cornerstone(All Sold)
Nowabeachbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2021, 12:14 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
757driver's Avatar


 
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Posts: 4,790
Larry,

An interesting read, thanks for posting.
__________________
Don & Gerri
2014 Entegra Anthem 44B
2014 Honda CRV Touring

1300W Solar, 1200AH LiFePO4 FMCA F443497
757driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2021, 02:58 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
LWBAZ's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 2,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by bevandtomH View Post
Larry, excellent info. Maybe you are not at liberty to say, but surprised EC did not have people there to see tests for themselves.
I would think they would have a vested interest on any improvements of the brand first hand.
I have no axe to grind with Spartan, but if I were EC, I would not rely solely on what they tell me about sub components.
Must have been fun to be in on this.
Tom, the Tuesday and Wednesday test runs (the 50 mile round trips out to Bartlett Lake and back) were very enjoyable, as well as enlightening. It’s a fun road to drive, very scenic, and the weather was great.

The Thursday tests out a Phoenix Raceway were more challenging. The scenery wasn’t anything to brag about (a big, relatively flat, asphalt parking lot), but at least the weather was still nice. One of the big takeaways from that day was that if you have to make emergency maneuvers in a big Class A motorhome, be prepared for lot of things inside the coach to NOT stay in place. By the time we were done, pretty much every drawer and door had executed at least one unplanned opening!

Regarding anyone from Entegra being invited, Brad Boehmer from Reyco Granning can elaborate if he so desires, but my sense is that Reyco Granning’s objective was to collect data on the handling and drivability characteristics of a Spartan K3 chassis as built by Spartan, then see if various changes would achieve potential improvements. What they learned and whether they plan to share it with Spartan and/or the motorhome builders who buy chassis products from Spartan is something Brad can address. Spartan RV’s two largest customers are Entegra/Jayco and Newmar. Foretravel and Nexus RV are their two other customers, but those two are comparatively low volume.
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2018 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
LWBAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
chassis, spartan



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cornerstone Spartan Chassis Tag Axle Leak eroyceus Class A Motorhome Discussions 11 06-20-2021 09:35 AM
Have Freightliner Steer tag axle or plan on buying one, watch how the tag steer works Rd1 Newmar Owner's Forum 33 03-02-2017 07:34 AM
Spartan introduces a passive steer tag axle cowrv39 Newmar Owner's Forum 1 05-22-2014 05:47 PM
Spartan Introducing ‘Passive Steer Tag Axle' DriVer RV Industry Press 0 05-22-2014 03:08 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.