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Old 07-24-2021, 11:39 AM   #15
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I already said NO to both Entegra and Newmar. Neither offer other than Spartan on their big rigs for '22. I looked at AC, but alas, no big rig single bath. So it looks like a three time Entegra buyer is leaving. I'll post about my remodel this fall.
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Old 07-24-2021, 02:55 PM   #16
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To be honest, Entegra, Newmar, and even Foretravel will see those saying no as unlikely candidates for a new RV anyway. Even if they are wrong, they are selling more than ever so they aren't concerned. In reality they likely are correct because statistics shows the ones most likely to say "boycott" are not in the market for the product/services anyway. I personally would not let it effect my decision.
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Old 07-24-2021, 07:11 PM   #17
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Old 07-25-2021, 09:23 AM   #18
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Let me be clear; We are currently on our 3rd Entegra, an Aspire, Anthem, and now the Cornerstone. We have had more issues and problems with the Cornerstone than just about all of our previous three coaches combined. It has taken me 4 years to get this coach sorted out. I would never have gotten here without the ongoing support of Joyce Skinner and Entegra customer service group, which, I believe, is still one of the best aftermarket support groups in the business.

That being said, I think I had (have) a realistic expectation, when you spend north of $500k for a discretionary item, that it would perform and be built to reasonable expectations and suitability for intended purpose. It should not take 4 years and multiple trips back to the factory to get the product somewhat close to that expectation.

I have considered many times over the span of ownership just trading up to a newer generation year Cornerstone, wondering if that would finally get me over the deficiency curve of issue with this coach. The reason I have not is simply watching all of the issues develop, and the pitiful responses from the manufacturer's to resolve the issues, plus a still lackluster build quality and the fit and finish of the product, on new and newer coaches.

Few, if any, new Coaches being commissioned over the last few years, have trouble free launches into service, much less a relatively trouble free period of operation, both in and out of the initial warranty period.

I cringe at the thought of again spending north of $500k for a new coach, and then experiencing all the crappy issues out of the box all over again as I've had to deal with on this coach, plus the new rounds of DEF head failures resulting in "out of service" periods until resolved....seems like the list never ends, nor gets better, year after year....just a new or different failure of the design/build/deliver process.

This appears to be a broken industry that seems to never really get much, or any better. Just periods of "not as bad as..." then back in the crapper. Or bad Monday/Friday builds, but "pretty good" on Tuesday/Wed/Thursday builds. I never want to hear again "but it's a house going down the freeway at 7o mph" as a shoddy excuse for failure to design and build truly to the products intended purpose and suitability of use....it can be done. But I don't see it happening yet.

Sorry for the rant......
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Old 07-25-2021, 09:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mymyst View Post
Let me be clear; We are currently on our 3rd Entegra, an Aspire, Anthem, and now the Cornerstone. We have had more issues and problems with the Cornerstone than just about all of our previous three coaches combined. It has taken me 4 years to get this coach sorted out. I would never have gotten here without the ongoing support of Joyce Skinner and Entegra customer service group, which, I believe, is still one of the best aftermarket support groups in the business.

That being said, I think I had (have) a realistic expectation, when you spend north of $500k for a discretionary item, that it would perform and be built to reasonable expectations and suitability for intended purpose. It should not take 4 years and multiple trips back to the factory to get the product somewhat close to that expectation.

I have considered many times over the span of ownership just trading up to a newer generation year Cornerstone, wondering if that would finally get me over the deficiency curve of issue with this coach. The reason I have not is simply watching all of the issues develop, and the pitiful responses from the manufacturer's to resolve the issues, plus a still lackluster build quality and the fit and finish of the product, on new and newer coaches.

Few, if any, new Coaches being commissioned over the last few years, have trouble free launches into service, much less a relatively trouble free period of operation, both in and out of the initial warranty period.

I cringe at the thought of again spending north of $500k for a new coach, and then experiencing all the crappy issues out of the box all over again as I've had to deal with on this coach, plus the new rounds of DEF head failures resulting in "out of service" periods until resolved....seems like the list never ends, nor gets better, year after year....just a new or different failure of the design/build/deliver process.

This appears to be a broken industry that seems to never really get much, or any better. Just periods of "not as bad as..." then back in the crapper. Or bad Monday/Friday builds, but "pretty good" on Tuesday/Wed/Thursday builds. I never want to hear again "but it's a house going down the freeway at 7o mph" as a shoddy excuse for failure to design and build truly to the products intended purpose and suitability of use....it can be done. But I don't see it happening yet.

Sorry for the rant......
No apology necessary - itís a good rant
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Old 07-25-2021, 12:05 PM   #20
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NO!!!!!
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Old 07-25-2021, 01:04 PM   #21
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Yes. While I can understand many people jumping ship, I am not panicked. I have owned coaches with Freightliner and Spartan Chassis. I probably have three times the miles on Spartan but substantially more tows and serious breakdowns on the Freightliners.

I am sympathetic with those who have had the DEF issues. But I wander if some of the problems in the past are forgotten or maybe not as public because we didn't have the internet back then to publicize, analyze and in some cases speculate the cause all of the problems.
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Old 07-25-2021, 01:11 PM   #22
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I understand each of your frustrations with the DEF head problems - we have a classic example. Immediately after taking delivery we began having high def temperature problems. For more than a month we were in Cummins in Atlanta, Gainesville, GA, and ten days in Birmingham. Spartan offered outstanding support. Overnighted a complete def tank and all accessories to Birmingham. No cure. Ended up in Big Cabin, OK at Cabin Diesel Service, where the problem was diagnosed before seeing the coachÖsomeone had reversed the coolant flow lines into the def tank!

Unfortunately this def head problem doesnít have such a simple fix. I think Spartan and (manufacturers ) are getting a bad rap here. They are victims of a government mandate of a new technology that has not been fully developed. I donít know how many of you are familiar with the anti-lock braking fiasco in the trucking industry in seventies. Anti-lock braking systems were mandated. The technology had not been fully developed, and this mandate really created some serious problems until the technology matured. I see this def head issue as this same government-created problem. Until the technology is fully developed, the problem will continue.

Could Spartan have handled this better?You bet! Transparency on their part would have made a big difference. I donít think many of the owners with this problem would not be nearly as upset, had Spartan admitted from the beginning that neither they, nor their suppliers had a solution. How that would have affected sales and customer satisfaction vs how they have handled it, so far is an unknown.

Sorry for the long post, but felt this should be considered.
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:45 PM   #23
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Just read this. Donít know how reliable, since it is anonymously sourced.


https://www.rvtravel.com/motorhomes-...cummins-blame/
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Old 07-25-2021, 03:50 PM   #24
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Yes

Although we are one of the families that have had the dreaded DEF head failure, and we have had our shares of issues with our 2019 44W Aspire. I believe with all the bad press, the Entegra group is paying some attention to the lack of what I have determined as some poor craftsmanship in these coaches. I believe we are more fortunate than some, because I have the skills to properly repair most issues. I have found many of the issues, are third party, but they have responded to help correct the issues. WTS- some of the Entegra folks need some crafts training to understand how to install and/or fabricate the coaches. Some of which are simple common sense! (i.e. vacuuming the sawdust off the floors before laying the tile.( the thin-set will not bond to the floor if you don't clean the floor before applying it). Using pipe dope and not plumbers putty when installing galvanized pipe for the showers, and never put the pipe dope inside the fitting, as it just clogs the plumbing fixtures. These are just two simple examples I what I found in our coach, but if Entegra doesn't have a testing or training program for their employees then the same problems will persist. It seems to me that for every warranty issue that Entegra has to address, their profits are reduced, so I don't understand not addressing the root causes, and correcting them.
What keeps people coming back to Entegra, is the Customer service group and Joyce Skinner! If the Champion (in this case Joyce) of a great program leaves, then the philosophy of that program usually goes with them, and will change over time.
So I don't believe in "Throwing the baby out with the bath water" and I believe the DEF issue will be resolved, base on all the pressure from the dealers and community! So YES is my answer as long as they maintain the 2 year warranty and Joyce is still there!
Sorry for the long winded response
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Old 07-25-2021, 04:53 PM   #25
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Thinking of Daveís question and how it can make an impact, pressure from dealers who really have the manufacturerís ear and a lot of skin in the game, for me, is where it has to come.
They stop selling DPís, the real pressure begins.
Three years ago I would have said yesÖ.now, doubtful.
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Old 07-25-2021, 06:35 PM   #26
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All you people talking about jumping ship better be careful you donít jump out of the frying pan into the fire.
Iíve owned motorhomes on both Freightliner and Spartan chassis and found Spartan to be much more helpful if you have a problem.
Last Freightliner I owned had documented problems from first day of ownership. While Freightliner did change a few parts the problems were never actually fixed. Shortly after the warranty expired the problems became chronic and Freightliner completely washed their hands of the problems.
Iíve had some of the same problems as everyone with Spartan, but they have always stuck with the problem until repaired, as they should. All the way back to Frank Wyzywany they have been a standup group. Iím not saying theyíre perfect, but I doubt youíll find a company with people like Scott Wixson, Dave Martin or Mike OíNeal that are more willing to do everything possible to keep you going.
I canít speak directly to all the def parts problems, but I had a def probe fail back in April and had a new probe next day with a mobile tech to replace it.
Maybe Spartan could have put out a letter each time they had a conversation with Shaw industry, but that wouldnít prove anything or get you a part any sooner.
Unless I miss my guess Spartan along with Entegra is doing everything possible to get a handle on this def problem.
I know itís a royal pita, but realistically thereís only so much they can do and Iím betting theyíre on the phone everyday trying to do just that.
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Old 07-25-2021, 06:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Rev. Roy View Post
To be honest, Entegra, Newmar, and even Foretravel will see those saying no as unlikely candidates for a new RV anyway. Even if they are wrong, they are selling more than ever so they aren't concerned. In reality they likely are correct because statistics shows the ones most likely to say "boycott" are not in the market for the product/services anyway. I personally would not let it effect my decision.
You do understand that Foretravel designs the chassis and has Spartan build it for them don't you?..[It's a considerably heavier design than what the mass produced "Price Point is everything" RV Mfg's use]
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Old 07-25-2021, 08:17 PM   #28
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Just read this. Donít know how reliable, since it is anonymously sourced.


https://www.rvtravel.com/motorhomes-...cummins-blame/
If this article is factual it is sad note for Cummins. Spartan, Entegra, and all other OEM RV manufactures who use Chassisís that have these failing DEF heads should be Strongly encouraging Cummins to request a temporary waiver. When a DEF head is not available for repair and the owner can not reach his destination there needs to be a solution.
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