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Old 04-19-2014, 03:44 PM   #85
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I's like that as well. When at Spartan they were building K3s on the line. The Newmar King Aire had 200 gal tanks while the Cornerstone only had 150. I'm always a big fan of getting more cruising range to make it easier to pick your fuel stops.
Mark: I'm aware each coach builder can specify some components of a chassis model to fit their specific coach models, such as the fuel tank size difference above, BUT......

My question is: Can Entegra order a "K3" for their Cornerstone that is substantially different from the "K3" Newmar uses under their KGDB? The reason I'm asking is that, in another thread, I read someone claiming the Entegra "K3" isn't the "real" K3 with the truss-like construction shown on Spartan's website. Surely just adding a ISX 600 to a K2 chassis does not make it a K3 for Entegra, does it? Thanks, Ed
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:00 PM   #86
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I's like that as well. When at Spartan they were building K3s on the line. The Newmar King Aire had 200 gal tanks while the Cornerstone only had 150. I'm always a big fan of getting more cruising range to make it easier to pick your fuel stops.
Mark, in an earlier post you compared the Mountain Aire to the Anthem. If Newmar were to start offering the K3 chassis with 600 hp engine in the Mountain Aire, do you think that would be a coach that would compare favorably to the Cornerstone?

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Old 04-19-2014, 04:24 PM   #87
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JMHO, you didn't ask me, but I don't think so...but I'd also say why would they do that when the Essex is $100k more than Cornerstone and only has 500 HP.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:39 PM   #88
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JMHO, you didn't ask me, but I don't think so...but I'd also say why would they do that when the Essex is $100k more than Cornerstone and only has 500 HP.
Obviously, with the Essex at 500 hp and priced $100K higher than the Cornerstone, it seems to indicate to me that Essex buyers don't care enough about the extra 100 hp to switch to the Cornerstone ... On the other hand, obviously, there seems to be a lot of buyers of Cornerstone. May be it means they're not getting what they want from Essex or Mountain Aire ...

I think there are some potential Newmar customers that want the K3 600 Hp engine without the glitz of Essex and King Aire ...

As long as Newmar insists in packaging the K3 in glitz-only coaches, they will continue to lose customers to Cornerstone ... That is the calculus that I'm currently making in the selection of my future coach!


That is, I select the chassis/engine. The DW selects the homey woodsy interior. In this combo, Newmar doesn't currently have a coach for me ... unless the Mountain Aire goes to K3!
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:43 PM   #89
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JMHO, you didn't ask me, but I don't think so...but I'd also say why would they do that when the Essex is $100k more than Cornerstone and only has 500 HP.
I agree. Not going to happen.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:44 PM   #90
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I absolutely agree with you...Mountain Aire with the floor plan options that Newmar has and Cornerstone doesn't would be a player for me as well. I think that MA also lacks a few things that Cornerstone (and Athem) have, for $50k more than Anthem, but That would be a big competitor for Cornerstone...might even get Entegra to move some on floor plans.
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:57 PM   #91
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As long as Newmar insists in packaging glitz-only coaches with K3, they will lose customers to Cornerstone ... That is the calculus that I'm currently making in the selection of my future coach!
Yes, but apparently some customers want the glitz. You can't have one style that appeals to everybody. That's why they make vanilla and chocolate ice cream. Would we really want all coaches to be alike so there would be nothing to differentiate them?
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:05 PM   #92
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Yes, but apparently some customers want the glitz. You can't have one style that appeals to everybody. That's why they make vanilla and chocolate ice cream. Would we really want all coaches to be alike so there would be nothing to differentiate them?
Yes, do continue to offer the glitz of Essex and King Aire. Some people want that. Note that the Mountain Aire does have the warm interiors that some people prefer, but it does not have the state of the art chassis and engine. Cornerstone is taking advantage of that hole in the Marketing plan from Newmar.

IMHO, I think Newmar offering the K3 in all 3 high-end coaches would be a huge win for them.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:16 PM   #93
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Mark: I'm aware each coach builder can specify some components of a chassis model to fit their specific coach models, such as the fuel tank size difference above, BUT......

My question is: Can Entegra order a "K3" for their Cornerstone that is substantially different from the "K3" Newmar uses under their KGDB? The reason I'm asking is that, in another thread, I read someone claiming the Entegra "K3" isn't the "real" K3 with the truss-like construction shown on Spartan's website. Surely just adding a ISX 600 to a K2 chassis does not make it a K3 for Entegra, does it? Thanks, Ed
That's a false claim. Both the Cornerstone and King Aire had the same K3 chassis. The big exception as the fuel tank sizes, and of course TRW's Column Drive on the Newmar, which they have labeled as Comfort Drive.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:26 PM   #94
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You have to realise that each coach needs to fit into a marketing segment. That consists of features, amentities, engine and chassis size, as well as price. The K2 chassis with the 500 HP ISX11 is a big jump in price over the Mountain Master GT (and especially over the Freightliner). The K3 racks the price up even higher. That's not just dropping a bigger engine in. The Allison 4000 transmissionm versus the 3000 tranny is many thousands of dollars extra in itself. The frames need to be beefier, the suspension stronger, the cooling system larger, etc. The K3 even has a second steering box so the costs just continue to add up. The K3 just isn't destined for an Anthem or Mountain Aire level product.
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Old 04-19-2014, 06:54 PM   #95
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You have to realise that each coach needs to fit into a marketing segment. That consists of features, amentities, engine and chassis size, as well as price. The K2 chassis with the 500 HP ISX11 is a big jump in price over the Mountain Master GT (and especially over the Freightliner). The K3 racks the price up even higher. That's not just dropping a bigger engine in. The Allison 4000 transmissionm versus the 3000 tranny is many thousands of dollars extra in itself. The frames need to be beefier, the suspension stronger, the cooling system larger, etc. The K3 even has a second steering box so the costs just continue to add up. The K3 just isn't destined for an Anthem or Mountain Aire level product.

I still think there is room for more than one K3 600 hp coach at an MSRP of $450K to $600K and without the Las Vegas glitz.
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Old 04-19-2014, 07:41 PM   #96
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That's a false claim. Both the Cornerstone and King Aire had the same K3 chassis. The big exception as the fuel tank sizes, and of course TRW's Column Drive on the Newmar, which they have labeled as Comfort Drive.
Thanks Mark, I'll take YOUR word for it.
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Old 04-19-2014, 07:43 PM   #97
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I still think there is room for more than one K3 600 hp coach at an MSRP of $450K to $600K and without the Las Vegas glitz.
And you base that on what? The cheapest K3 is the Cornerstone at roughly 600K. If you think you're going to see a K3 for 450 you are dreaming.
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Old 04-19-2014, 07:56 PM   #98
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And you base that on what? The cheapest K3 is the Cornerstone at roughly 600K. If you think you're going to see a K3 for 450 you are dreaming.
I think the reason for the $600K for the Cornerstone is because Entegra saw a vacuum of K3 coaches in that market range of 450k-600k. It's the reason they could keep gradually raising the MSRP to the present just above 600K. I think competition may now get some manufacturer into that range with another K3 coach. Or FL may jump in with a solution at 600 HP to keep others from going to Spartan.

Competition is a wonderful thing. But, you're right. Who knows? Obviously, Newmar is perfectly capable of figuring out what is best for them.

In the meantime, the rest of us keep hoping for better and better RVs. It's a win win for all.

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