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01-12-2025, 09:43 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Entegra Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Sep 2024
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 14
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Surge brakes vs electric brakes
I'm getting ready to retire and start full-timing it within the next 3 months. I'm considering using a dolly tow for my Volvo S40, front wheel drive. I'd rather not have to add an electric brake controller to my 2021 Anthem, but my concern is that going down hill, using my engine brake will cause the surge brakes on the dolly to engage the entire time, resulting in loss of braking and excessive wear on the pad and rotor/disc. Any thoughts from the more experienced would be most appreciated. Thank you in advance for your insightful comments and hard gained wisdom.
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01-12-2025, 10:06 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 34,169
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Surge brake on the tow dolly should only apply the brake for a short time on initial engagement of the engine brake then release as the speed of the coach and dolly equalize then brake should stay off until a downshift .
Depending on the dolly manufacturer there maybe adjustments to the amount of surge force required to apply the brakes.
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99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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01-12-2025, 10:59 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 287
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This is the exact reason that when I ordered my enclosed trailer, that we haul our motorcycles in, I did so with surge brakes.
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2015 Entegra Cornerstone 45B
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01-13-2025, 08:11 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 450
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They do make wireless electric brake controllers, though I would look very carefully at the spec sheet and do some extremely thorough tests to make sure the signal can get all the way from the driver's seat to the tow hitch.
This is among the reasons that we bit the bullet and just bought a car that could be flat towed.
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2019 Entegra Reatta 39BH
2018 Winnebago Minnie Plus 27BHSS, "Raspberry" (retired)
2015 GMC Yukon XL
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01-13-2025, 08:32 AM
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#5
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Junior Member
Entegra Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Sep 2024
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 14
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Thank you very much for your insights. I'm new at this as this is my 1st RV, and I don't want or need to make any more mistakes than necessary. Thanks again!
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01-13-2025, 12:19 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Rogers, AR
Posts: 2,866
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Surge brakes are OK, but don't load your car.
A few years ago, I parked next to a guy that got a few of us around and asked why his surge brakes was wearing the tires out on the dolly? He had one pair of tires worn out in the car (why?) and the tires on the dolly were very worn. He had stopped at some shop and had the surge brakes disconnected to save his tires. They were full timers on the road all the time.
After a bit of a review, when he opened his car door to get one of the tires out to show us, there was only room in the car for the driver, the rest of the car was filled to the ceiling with stuff that they carried along, basically using it for a trailer. All that weight was mostly on the back tires just free wheeling along when the surge brakes engaged, there was only the weight of the front end of the car tipped up high on the dolly to provide traction between the tires and the road when the surge brakes engaged, and would skid the tires quite easily.
A perfect example would be if you had to drive a car without brakes and only use the emergency brake to stop the car. This would be the older rear wheel drive cars, you'll find that trying to stop with only the two rear wheels is very ineffective and will skid the rear tires quite easily. Voice of experience.
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2019 Fleetwood Discovery LXE 40M w/2021 Equinox
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01-13-2025, 02:42 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 37,075
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Story's, story's, story's.
I dolly towed, with a surge brake dolly, 5 different cars and SUVs over 9 years. Soul, Renegade, Ridgeline, ( 4,500 lbs ), Mazda, Patriot , and loaded all of them with what didn't fit in the rig. In 40,000 miles of towing, I replaced 1 set of disk brake pads and one set of 14 inch SD tires.
Panic stops happened on occasion without lockup, traveled up and down all of the East coast mountain ranges, including the Blue Ridge Highway, without any issues.
Nothing wrong with surge brake dollys.
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01-13-2025, 02:54 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: On the continental divide
Posts: 3,333
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Dad,
My 1st gen Master Tow dolly does not have brakes of any kind, and 3 trips to Florida and all over the mountains of the western states have been good so far towing an '02 Dodge Grand Caravan. I probably have 30K on it so far. I did put the same tires on it as the van and got a good balance job at my local shop.
It does have the swivel plate, and I use cables thru the wheels rather than the OEM safety chains to make hooking up a bit easier. No issues so far.
Mike in Colorado
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2004 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37c, 8.1 gasser, (Jezebel) Ultra RV ECM / TCM, plugs wires, and rear track bar, PPE deep Tx pan w/ temp gage, Bilstein's, Sailun's & Sumo's all round, pushed by a 2002 Grand Caravan, on a Master Tow Dolly OR a WR-250 on a rail.
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01-14-2025, 01:09 AM
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#9
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Junior Member
Entegra Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Sep 2024
Location: Lacey, WA
Posts: 14
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Well, it certainly looks like the ayes have it, and surge brakes appear to be as effective as electric or perhaps better, because you don't need a brake controller. Happy to hear that going downhill won't cause any undue wear on the brakes as was my concern. I thank all of you for your considered input and collective wisdom.
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01-14-2025, 08:17 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Bozeman, MT
Posts: 474
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Just to throw a monkey wrench into this, installing an electric brake controller is really easy. There is already a “down frame” wire installed from the cockpit area to the trailer hitch for this exact purpose. The newer Entegra’s have all of the wiring installed for you, It’s simply a matter of connecting the brake controller wires to the existing wires, and mounting the controller to the dash. Install took about 10 minutes in my ‘24 Cornerstone.
Entegra can tell you the color and location of the wires in your exact coach. Since I’m sure it’s different between model years, and probably different between K2 and K3 chassis, I won’t attempt to tell you which wires to look for,
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‘24 Entegra Cornerstone 45W Factory Lithium & Eclipse
'20 Entegra Cornerstone 45Y (sold)
'23 Jeep Wagoneer L Toad
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01-14-2025, 09:37 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 1969
Posts: 3,050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schnauzerdad
Thank you very much for your insights. I'm new at this as this is my 1st RV, and I don't want or need to make any more mistakes than necessary. Thanks again!
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My first mistake was overloading tires and/or them ageing out. I bought my first MH because I needed a box truck to move furniture after retiring.
Then we headed west and blew a tire in nowhere west Texas. I inspected all the tires and found a second one with a football size bulge.
After two years we figured out we were full time and DW wanted to tow a car. I ended up getting a used Mastertow dolly with surge brakes. It has been up and down lots of steep grades and I have not had issues with brake fade.
I have to check the backup to make sure the TOAD is still there. A DP makes a great tow vehicle.
First thing that happened was a tire was ruined when a truck cut in behind me in NYC and I put on the never used spare. Six or seven years later I replaced the remaining tire because of wear with about 50k miles.
Last year I got a Saab 9-3 convertible and it did fine except for being a 1000 heavier, so I started driving slower. I was driving south on I-5 when another driver was waving frantically. The at least 8 year old tire was gone along with the fender and I was driving on the rim.
Now I have TMPS on the dolly and the TOAD which is cheaper a new rim and fender with lighting.
I also replaced all the tires on my new to me Saab. My new goal in life is to see how many sets of tires I can replace because of age.
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Kit & Rita (in memory)
37 foot ‘98 HolidayRambler Endeavor diesel pusher
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01-22-2025, 06:42 AM
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#12
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 8
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Surge Brakes
I have a 2014 Entegra Aspire and pull a 2500# steel decked trailer upon which I carry my 4000# off-road vehicle. And yes, going down steep mountain grades the trailer brakes want to stay engaged. Another problem is backing up the loaded trailer. The brakes want to engage. To solve these two problems I installed a solenoid valve which releases the brake pressure when 12V is applied. This solenoid was developed for boaters trying to back their boat trailers. Instead of using the backup lights as a 12v source I connected to the parking lamps at the back of the motor home which is controlled by a factory installed manual switch located next to the drivers seat. That way I can manually disengage the trailer brakes when coasting downhill and reapply when I want to slow down. And likewise, when backing up I can simply flip the switch and no trailer brakes.
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Gerald & Louann
Montgomery, TX
2013 Entegra Aspire
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