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Old 01-14-2017, 06:05 PM   #15
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Wow , that's surprising , well , kinda ,?I guess... then again ! . The engineers that design these new systems truly haven't a clue how normal people use them. They should be required to actually travel in them. Or even more realistic actually talk to owners on their use needs ! I've used a lot of 30 amp only parks and in all if you have power of any kind generator use is prohibited. So they should make the system shed power properly.
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Old 01-14-2017, 06:29 PM   #16
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I guess I am really surprised that the engineers and other folks designing these sophisticated rigs have no idea how the customers use them. While I agree they should all be required to spend some time in what they design, I realize that is likely not going to happen. Even so, would think that within the teams of folks making final decisions on what is to be installed in a coach there would be someone with some real world RV experience...or some way to get that sort of input. Go figure.....Duh.

I haven't looked carefully at any new class A coaches in some time. I just thought all of the mid to higher level rigs had some sort of energy management system. Even my 2002 Winnebago Journey had the Intellitec EMS. My current coach also has it and it allows me to select the incoming power source 20, 30, 50 amp. And if on the generator or any shore power setting other than 50 amp, it shows amp draw and will shed loads as needed.

So, surprised the Entegra coaches don't have something like that.

Also, don't the remotes for the Magnum Energy inverter/chargers allow you to lower the charging amps or does the Vega system bypass all of that?

We are going to the Tampa show next week just for fun so plan to see more of what the various manufactures offer these days.
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Old 01-14-2017, 06:36 PM   #17
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Is this so even if you turn off the inverter circuit breaker? I thought if you turn off the CB the inverter will stop charging thus saving some of your 30A to be used by something else.
Marc,

That depends on which inverter circuit breaker you are referring to. If you turn off the 30 amp inverter curcuit breaker in the AC distribution panel above the drivers seat (the one on the left) that inverter will start to invert and thus not charge the batteries but it will be draining the batteries.

If you switch off the inverter circuit breaker in the inverter distribution panel (the one on the right) it will kill all power to those inverted circuits but the charger for that inverter will continue to charge the batteries.

I find it best to switch off inverters and/or chargers with the use of their respective buttons on the Magnum inverter remote panels. This only works on coaches without Vegatouch.
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Old 01-14-2017, 06:47 PM   #18
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it's really not much different than if your electric company came by your home and told you that they were working on the lines up the street and you would only have 50 amps of service instead of your normal 200 amps, for a few days.
it wouldn't be the end of the world - you'd still have electricity - but, you'd suddenly have to really be in tune with what in your house is using electricity, how much, and when.
you would soon realize how much you 'can't' use when your main breaker trips. you'd then start thinking of what is critical for a few days, and all of the others that are not...or you might shut some things off only until you need to use them, etc...

as others have noted:
don't allow your CHARGER to use too much of your 30a power- cut the SHORE MAX setting on your Inverter/Charger to 5amps during your stay... that will leave you much more amperage for the other items you'll really want to keep using...

enjoy ! : )
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Old 01-14-2017, 07:26 PM   #19
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Smlranger,

Entegra' 2017 Vegatouch coaches no longer have the Magnum remote(s), and Vegatouch is mostly a collection of on/off switches all in one place. For the most part, it's kinda nice. BUT, as far as "adjusting" things, not so much. The most sophisticated adjustments are in operation of your HVAV systems, and operating light dimmers.

What they don't have is operational control of components. They finally got the Auto Gen Start to work. And they seem to have overcome the frequent communication errors. But at this point, Vegatouch can't duplicate the MRC Magnum Remote. We don't even have remotes....just Vegatouch.


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Old 01-15-2017, 05:51 AM   #20
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Smlranger,

Entegra' 2017 Vegatouch coaches no longer have the Magnum remote(s), and Vegatouch is mostly a collection of on/off switches all in one place. For the most part, it's kinda nice. BUT, as far as "adjusting" things, not so much. The most sophisticated adjustments are in operation of your HVAV systems, and operating light dimmers.

What they don't have is operational control of components. They finally got the Auto Gen Start to work. And they seem to have overcome the frequent communication errors. But at this point, Vegatouch can't duplicate the MRC Magnum Remote. We don't even have remotes....just Vegatouch.


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Thanks for the clarification. I do admire the look and exterior fit and finish of the Entegra coaches I see and appreciate their Travel Supreme heritage. There is a new Cornerstone near me here in Bradenton and it is beautiful and the owner seems generally satisfied with it. However, what you describe would prevent me from considering any new coach with such a set up. I enjoy computers and appreciate their usefulness but want some individual control of components in my coach. These beasts are complicated enough without making it worse.

Is the Vegatouch an effort to just seem 'cool' and 'high tech?' Is this an effort to appeal more to a younger buyer, those with higher expectations for computerization/automation?
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Old 01-15-2017, 06:46 AM   #21
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Thanks for the clarification. I do admire the look and exterior fit and finish of the Entegra coaches I see and appreciate their Travel Supreme heritage. There is a new Cornerstone near me here in Bradenton and it is beautiful and the owner seems generally satisfied with it. However, what you describe would prevent me from considering any new coach with such a set up. I enjoy computers and appreciate their usefulness but want some individual control of components in my coach. These beasts are complicated enough without making it worse.

Is the Vegatouch an effort to just seem 'cool' and 'high tech?' Is this an effort to appeal more to a younger buyer, those with higher expectations for computerization/automation?
The Vegatouch is just the beginning of what will become commonplace in high end coaches. In just a few years you won't be able to buy a high end coach without a system like this (but more sophisticated). The 2019 Vegatouch, as described to me by Firefly, will be awesome.

Someone had to be first. After 10 months with the Vegatouch I can't imagine having a coach without it. BTW I'm not young, but have been around computers and automation for 50 years.
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Old 01-15-2017, 09:04 AM   #22
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I will agree with Victoryblue. Entegra & Firefly have worked their tails off upgrading the system this year as we consumers have presented them with a huge variety of challenges. The integrations have gotten better and better.

I'm sure, as they tackle the challenge of dealing with different shore power scenarios, consult with Magnum Energy, and work with their team of beta-testers, they will find solutions that will provide the flexibility we need in our power management. Of course it would be ideal that they live in a coach and could anticipate all scenarios, but that's just not how they work.

I recommend patience in this matter. They've only just become familiar with and understand the challenge of manipulating shore power to manage less than 50amp power.

To be frank, they haven't let us down yet!


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Old 01-15-2017, 11:25 AM   #23
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Marc,

That depends on which inverter circuit breaker you are referring to. If you turn off the 30 amp inverter curcuit breaker in the AC distribution panel above the drivers seat (the one on the left) that inverter will start to invert and thus not charge the batteries but it will be draining the batteries.

If you switch off the inverter circuit breaker in the inverter distribution panel (the one on the right) it will kill all power to those inverted circuits but the charger for that inverter will continue to charge the batteries.

I find it best to switch off inverters and/or chargers with the use of their respective buttons on the Magnum inverter remote panels. This only works on coaches without Vegatouch.
You just confirmed my point. By turning off both inverters at the circuit breaker over the driver's seat, they will no longer charge the batteries, leaving the full 30A to run two A/C's and the refrigerator. During the day there is hardly any draw on the batteries, so why not do this during the day, then turn on the inverters to charge the batteries at night, when one A/C will suffice? Just don't forget to turn the inverters back on.
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Old 01-15-2017, 11:27 AM   #24
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I guess I am really surprised that the engineers and other folks designing these sophisticated rigs have no idea how the customers use them. While I agree they should all be required to spend some time in what they design, I realize that is likely not going to happen. Even so, would think that within the teams of folks making final decisions on what is to be installed in a coach there would be someone with some real world RV experience...or some way to get that sort of input. Go figure.....Duh.

I haven't looked carefully at any new class A coaches in some time. I just thought all of the mid to higher level rigs had some sort of energy management system. Even my 2002 Winnebago Journey had the Intellitec EMS. My current coach also has it and it allows me to select the incoming power source 20, 30, 50 amp. And if on the generator or any shore power setting other than 50 amp, it shows amp draw and will shed loads as needed.

So, surprised the Entegra coaches don't have something like that.
The newer Entegras do have an EMS. This started in 2015, I think. Prior to that they did not.
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:20 PM   #25
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You just confirmed my point. By turning off both inverters at the circuit breaker over the driver's seat, they will no longer charge the batteries, leaving the full 30A to run two A/C's and the refrigerator. During the day there is hardly any draw on the batteries, so why not do this during the day, then turn on the inverters to charge the batteries at night, when one A/C will suffice? Just don't forget to turn the inverters back on.
Marc,

You could do that to run two A/C's during the day but then the microwave, fridge, basement freezer, awnings, TV, and everything else on an inverted curcuit is draining the batteries during the day. I do not see the logic in wanting to do this.

When plugged into 30 amp shore power after about 4-5 hours the batteries are nearly fully charged, so one charger or two (it does not really matter) will only be using up to 2-3 AC amps of that 30 amp budget.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:05 PM   #26
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Surviving on 30 AMP

Marc...right on target.

Wish I could actually turn the inverters and the chargers on and off at the Vegatouch...,all separately of course. Wish I could dial back shore power-both inverters. Wish we had the control flexibility that you have with Magnum Remotes....2016 and earlier.

I'm sure it will come....but they still have much work to do.

In talking with them, part of the difficulty is machine language. Part of it is possibly proprietary on Magnum's part. Part of it may also be lack of information and design expectations originally communicated from Entegra to Firefly....it very well be that PJ is the only guy that actually understands the Magnum Remote and can define just what the capabilities need to be....and I'm not sure he is on that team. I know their EE does not.

I talked to Leon (Firefly) the other day, and he thinks they have a handle on the situation now, but have just started walking down that road. It will take some time, some negotiation, and some patience.


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Old 01-15-2017, 01:20 PM   #27
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When on any shore power source the inverters are NOT being used. If you turn off an inverter it does not shut down that inverters charger. To restrict the amount of power being used for charging when on 30 amp shore power turn OFF the charger on oneinverter remote panel (as installed) and dial the other one back to 5 amps.
My Inverter has several settings
OFF: no power passes period, Not 120 pass through, Not 12 volt either direction
ON, but disabled/disabled Pass through works, nothing else
ON but Inverter disabled/Converter enabled 12 volt TO the batteries (Sucks power from 120 )
ON but Inverrter enabled/Charger disabled: Pass through if shore/generator present, If not sucks 12 volt to make 120
ON and Enabled/Enabled Charges if shore present, sucks battery power if not.

I use a separate converter so I run charger disabled.

Now, my PD 9180 will suck over 10 amps if the batteries are truly hungry.. closer to 1 amp if they are well fed (Full).

On any RV there are "Big" and "Small" items and one variable and one medium. The Variable is the converter, described above It can go from BIG to basically nothing.

Medium is the Fridge, If worried run it on gas (350 watts)

BIG Air Conditioenrs and heaters, including space heaters, Water heaters (on electric) and Microwaves.. Also I'd put "Kitchen" heaters (Coffee pot, Skillet, Hot plate, Steamer) in the mixed category (Read the label)

ON good quality 30 amps you can run TWO big ticket items but usually NOT both air conditioners (I have done it in the past but since my last A/C replacement no longer can) You are right on the ragged edge.. My Original A/Cs if cleaned drew a total of 27 amps (Just as the tag said they should) by measurement.

NOTE Fridge on Gas, Water heater on Gas, Batteries full

My new one draws more so it will trip a 30 amp breaker if running both.

ON poor 30 amps (Which I often have in Summer) only ONE big ticket, (plus the fridge, and some days not even that) TURN OFF A/C if using Microwave.

NOTE: I have modified with a break out box on the rear A/C. I can "unplug" it from the main power feed and plug into a 12ga cord to the park's 20 amp. Works for me.

But at one park come summer.. I think I'm going to spring for 50 amp.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:36 PM   #28
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Most (all?) Entegras have residential fridges, so no gas option for refrigerator.
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