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Old 12-03-2020, 05:49 AM   #1
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The Difference Between a Gen 5 and a Gen 6 DEF Sensor

Mounted in the tank, there is no way to tell which generation DEF sensor is installed. They all look the same, mounted the same, with no identification number visible. We could not find any numbers after removing the DEF head, but they must be there somewhere.

The photo shows a Gen 5, at the top and a Gen 6 on the bottom. The only difference we could see was the size and shape of the sensor housing and tube.
The second photo is the Gen 6 sitting in the box. There seems to be a lot of intricate parts to these sensor that we cannot see inside of the sensor housing. As explained to me, there is never any outside evidence unless it has sat to long and there is dried Urethra on the shaft or a strong ammonia smell.

Speaking the first time with Shaw Development, they said ammonia will kill a DEF sensor, also low Urethra concentrate DEF. If Urethra falls below or highly above 32.5% the DEF sensor will shut the engine down. Problem is they cannot get that sensing technology to work even with perfect DEF. Also quoted from Shaw, EPA did not take into consideration units that sit for a long periods of time with DEF stored in them. Their suggestion, as mentioned here many times, is for anyone that stores is a refratometer to test the DEF before leaving on a trip. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


JMO the EPA was not thinking of the MH market when the DEF sensing requirement was put into effect. It was the OTR trucks that add fresh DEF daily/weekly. But even that is not working.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:38 AM   #2
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Hi Chuck, so far our 16 hasn't been affected ( in trouble now ) but I've been following this topic both here and on TRVN. A Tiffin poster this AM says his Gen 6 SHAW replacement is a 2 wire ultrasonic head vs the Gen 5 , 3 wire analog . I have absolutely no clue if he's correct just relaying his comments.
Did you see a wire difference or did Cummins or Shaw allude to any such change ?

Just being curious !
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox View Post
Mounted in the tank, there is no way to tell which generation DEF sensor is installed. They all look the same, mounted the same, with no identification number visible. We could not find any numbers after removing the DEF head, but they must be there somewhere.

The photo shows a Gen 5, at the top and a Gen 6 on the bottom. The only difference we could see was the size and shape of the sensor housing and tube.
The second photo is the Gen 6 sitting in the box. There seems to be a lot of intricate parts to these sensor that we cannot see inside of the sensor housing. As explained to me, there is never any outside evidence unless it has sat to long and there is dried Urethra on the shaft or a strong ammonia smell.

Speaking the first time with Shaw Development, they said ammonia will kill a DEF sensor, also low Urethra concentrate DEF. If Urethra falls below or highly above 32.5% the DEF sensor will shut the engine down. Problem is they cannot get that sensing technology to work even with perfect DEF. Also quoted from Shaw, EPA did not take into consideration units that sit for a long periods of time with DEF stored in them. Their suggestion, as mentioned here many times, is for anyone that stores is a refratometer to test the DEF before leaving on a trip. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


JMO the EPA was not thinking of the MH market when the DEF sensing requirement was put into effect. It was the OTR trucks that add fresh DEF daily/weekly. But even that is not working.
Chuck, I think your spell check is doing it again. Urethra is something we use when we pee, DEF has urea in it and just smells like pee.
Glad I have the Gen 6 for whatever that’s worth.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:45 AM   #4
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Chuck,

Any thoughts on making sure your Def tank stays full or do you keep it at a half a tank? I try to keep mine above 3/4 of a tank.

Gary S.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollin101 View Post
Chuck, I think your spell check is doing it again. Urethra is something we use when we pee, DEF has urea in it and just smells like pee.
Glad I have the Gen 6 for whatever that’s worth.
Yep got me again and it was too late to fix it.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:53 AM   #6
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Chuck,

Any thoughts on making sure your Def tank stays full or do you keep it at a half a tank? I try to keep mine above 3/4 of a tank.

Gary S.
I get two different stories on that. If storing, store with a low amount of DEF so the DEF that is added before a trip is fresh. The other story is not to let the DEF sensor get dry. Which one is correct? Hopefully Shaw, the manufacture, can give their recommendation when I speak with them.
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Old 12-03-2020, 06:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayman View Post
Hi Chuck, so far our 16 hasn't been affected ( in trouble now ) but I've been following this topic both here and on TRVN. A Tiffin poster this AM says his Gen 6 SHAW replacement is a 2 wire ultrasonic head vs the Gen 5 , 3 wire analog . I have absolutely no clue if he's correct just relaying his comments.
Did you see a wire difference or did Cummins or Shaw allude to any such change ?

Just being curious !
Brian your sensor might be before the start of the new sensors. My tech yesterday said that Freightliners problems started with the model year 2017.
I don't know the mechanics of the different sensors other that what is in the photos. That is a question I will ask Shaw, what is the difference? Between Spartan and Cummins, so far none of them have been able to answer that question.
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Old 12-03-2020, 08:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayman View Post
Hi Chuck, so far our 16 hasn't been affected ( in trouble now ) but I've been following this topic both here and on TRVN. A Tiffin poster this AM says his Gen 6 SHAW replacement is a 2 wire ultrasonic head vs the Gen 5 , 3 wire analog . I have absolutely no clue if he's correct just relaying his comments.

Did you see a wire difference or did Cummins or Shaw allude to any such change ?



Just being curious !


Brian,
X2. We never had any “DEF” sensor trouble on our 2016 Anthem. As an aside, we did not get the $5,000 iPad Vega touch option either (offered then) and so no VT problems either (-:
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Old 12-03-2020, 07:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollin101 View Post
Chuck, I think your spell check is doing it again. Urethra is something we use when we pee, DEF has urea in it and just smells like pee.
Glad I have the Gen 6 for whatever that’s worth.
Well, that's a pi$$er.

Take care,
Stu
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Old 12-04-2020, 07:36 AM   #10
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Brian,
X2. We never had any “DEF” sensor trouble on our 2016 Anthem. As an aside, we did not get the $5,000 iPad Vega touch option either (offered then) and so no VT problems either (-:
Alec, No VT in our 16 either and yet another reason to keep what we have as far as we're concerned ! I wouldn't have the patience or resolve to deal with VT shutdowns or de-rated engine due to DEF and be on the side of the road with a brand new coach although I understand there are potential for other issues and while I realize this certainly isn't an Entegra problem until the DEF system is corrected our thoughts to downsize are on HOLD if not making us re-evaluate our RV future after 30+ years.
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