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Old 11-27-2019, 08:44 AM   #113
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David



Are you going to run this forward to some government agency that needs to be made aware of this count (and of course, this is one forum, with a small subset of owners on it.



As I said much earlier, it is my understanding that a lawsuit was filed (most likely in a Michigan court) against the OEM manufacturer to get the OEM to pay for all the radiators that Spartan has had to replace. If one could find that lawsuit, then the exact numbers are probably right in the suit to cover some period of time..... all the information is probably laid out fully there. Now, the suit may be a rumor, but it was floating around strongly about 17 or 16, and makes a good deal of sense.



Gary


Gary- i sent follow up photos as requested yesterday. Amazing that after sitting in storage for two weeks there is still a lot of Final Charge fluid along the bottom of the radiator housing gasket ( seen looking between the outside fins) and inside the housing gasket is soaked. Reservoir is once again below sight glass.
Once I hear back from Spartan I will determine course of action. Am going to consult an attorney on recommendations too and then bring Joyce Skinner into the loop.
Bet Spartan wouldn’t treat a Foretravel customer this way. Maybe I should see about taking my CS to Nacogdoches for the repairs!
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:37 PM   #114
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No word on maintenance here though. In severe service, which is what a motor home chassis is considered to be in, coolant should be flushed and replaced at 1 or 2 year intervals regardless of how many miles are put on it. Some chassis sit for a year at the Coach Builders with their original coolant before the house is built and then for another extended period of time at the dealers. Part of this could be defective radiators while the rest could just be that the coolant needed to be changed before the coach was finished being built and then that the dealer failed to change it before it was sold. How many owners then actually flush and replace coolant every 1 or 2 years on their coaches? Without a full root cause analysis though it will be hard to say on the coolant flush part of the equation.

Electrolysis is another issue that can happen due to all the high current electrical components in today's coaches so poor electrical grounding of the engine and radiator to the chassis could also be part of the problem which may be further impacted if the epoxy bonding of the metal cooling tubes to the end caps of the radiator electrically isolates the three parts.

Some also mentioned incorrect coolant being used which could also be a mistake made by a dealer or owner even if they did flush the systems regularly.

Sounds like it could be a multi-part issue with nobody rolling up their sleeves to get fully to the bottom of it except perhaps for the mechanic mentioned as taking ownership of the issue having a welded lifetime warrantied aluminum radiator made up and installing it.

Just some random thoughts from one who did industrial maintenance and has dealt with a number of these kinds of issues over the years. Its sad how many times that a good part of the root cause is simply lack of positive grounding of the engine block/alternator housing/radiator or waiting too long between coolant flushes.
The coolant installed in the radiators in question is OAT extended life coolant that is good for 6 years (with the appropriate coolant extender added at 3 years).
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Old 11-27-2019, 02:54 PM   #115
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Old 11-27-2019, 11:03 PM   #116
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The coolant installed in the radiators in question is OAT extended life coolant that is good for 6 years (with the appropriate coolant extender added at 3 years).


Don,
Any idea where to get this “extender”? I asked this question in another thread earlier and someone sent me a picture of “Final Charge Extender”. I’ve googled it, stopped at several auto parts stores but no one carries it. I was told (I forget who) told me they stopped making it. Even the Mobile Lube company who did my oil change (20+ years in business ) couldn’t help. I plan to circle back with Spartan and Cummins after the holidays. Maybe the “extender” is just an urban legend (-: Thanks
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Old 11-28-2019, 05:33 AM   #117
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Don,
Any idea where to get this “extender”? I asked this question in another thread earlier and someone sent me a picture of “Final Charge Extender”. I’ve googled it, stopped at several auto parts stores but no one carries it. I was told (I forget who) told me they stopped making it. Even the Mobile Lube company who did my oil change (20+ years in business ) couldn’t help. I plan to circle back with Spartan and Cummins after the holidays. Maybe the “extender” is just an urban legend (-: Thanks


Spartan sells the coolant extender.
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Old 11-28-2019, 10:09 AM   #118
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Spartan sells the coolant extender.


Thanks. I will call them after the holidays.
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Old 11-28-2019, 12:09 PM   #119
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Don,
Any idea where to get this “extender”? I asked this question in another thread earlier and someone sent me a picture of “Final Charge Extender”. I’ve googled it, stopped at several auto parts stores but no one carries it. I was told (I forget who) told me they stopped making it. Even the Mobile Lube company who did my oil change (20+ years in business ) couldn’t help. I plan to circle back with Spartan and Cummins after the holidays. Maybe the “extender” is just an urban legend (-: Thanks
Purchased mine from Spartan a few years ago. They show it on their retail website.

https://www.rvchassisparts.com:8443/...is/runApp?id=5
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Old 11-29-2019, 09:24 AM   #120
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Don

I'm pretty sure that my last purchase of OAT said on the bottle that it was good for 500,000 miles (or some huge number). No?

Gary
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:10 AM   #121
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Don

I'm pretty sure that my last purchase of OAT said on the bottle that it was good for 500,000 miles (or some huge number). No?

Gary
Gary,

The 6 year change interval was from Spartan school. On their website Peak’s warranty shows 1,000,000 miles or 8 years.
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:23 AM   #122
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Don:

Might we guess that there may be a self-serving aspect to all this?

Now Spartan is also telling us that the air filters need to be changed every year, and tranny fluid every year or every other year??????????

Gary
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Old 11-29-2019, 12:29 PM   #123
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Don:

Might we guess that there may be a self-serving aspect to all this?

Now Spartan is also telling us that the air filters need to be changed every year, and tranny fluid every year or every other year??????????

Gary
Gary,

To a degree I think so. Since at least 2014 Spartan has been saying change the air filter every year which I also think is too often. Transmission fluid with prognostics turned ON has been at 5 years with Spartan since at least 2014. The rear differential fluid change every year (as preached by Spartan) also seems to be too frequent for motorhome use BUT is the same interval as mentioned by the differential manufacturer.

Leaving Final Charge fluid in an engine for 8 years seems a little too long for my liking so I will use the 6 year change interval.
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:11 AM   #124
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Cruzer has an article in Family RV magazine about Allison maintenence, with the following reference: "Then, go to the Allison website and visit the My Transmission page at http://www.allisontransmission.com/p...y-transmission. Enter your transmission’s serial number to display the service requirements."
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Old 12-19-2019, 06:10 PM   #125
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Gary- i sent follow up photos as requested yesterday. Amazing that after sitting in storage for two weeks there is still a lot of Final Charge fluid along the bottom of the radiator housing gasket ( seen looking between the outside fins) and inside the housing gasket is soaked. Reservoir is once again below sight glass.
Once I hear back from Spartan I will determine course of action. Am going to consult an attorney on recommendations too and then bring Joyce Skinner into the loop.
Bet Spartan wouldn’t treat a Foretravel customer this way. Maybe I should see about taking my CS to Nacogdoches for the repairs!


UPDATE: My 16 CS is at Cummins Coach Care in Houston as of Tuesday. 95 mile drive. Stopped in their service lane, unhooked my F150 and waited for Justin to be free. We walked out to the coach, and lo and behold there was a large pink puddle under the left rear corner! Mine was the second Entegra in line that day.
Spoke with Joyce the following day. In my opinion, she is a bit “put out” with Spartan on this EPIDEMIC PART FAILURE.
She had her counterpart at Spartan call me. He repeated the company line, “ its out of warranty” so send in all your bills and we will” take a look”. My next correspondence will be with Daryl Adams, the CEO.
Of note, the Svc Mgr at Cummins Houston said he has had one tech basically full time on Spartan radiator replacements for 1.5 years. If that is not the definition of EPIDEMIC PART FAILURE I don’t know what is. Sure wish there was a “whistleblower” at Spartan [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23].
Going to start the search for a corporate law expert who will take this on contingency. I don’ t want any damages just my out of pocket, lawyer can keep the rest. In Texas, fraud often gets treble damages I am told.
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Old 12-20-2019, 04:20 AM   #126
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UPDATE: My 16 CS is at Cummins Coach Care in Houston as of Tuesday. 95 mile drive. Stopped in their service lane, unhooked my F150 and waited for Justin to be free. We walked out to the coach, and lo and behold there was a large pink puddle under the left rear corner! Mine was the second Entegra in line that day.
Spoke with Joyce the following day. In my opinion, she is a bit “put out” with Spartan on this EPIDEMIC PART FAILURE.
She had her counterpart at Spartan call me. He repeated the company line, “ its out of warranty” so send in all your bills and we will” take a look”. My next correspondence will be with Daryl Adams, the CEO.
Of note, the Svc Mgr at Cummins Houston said he has had one tech basically full time on Spartan radiator replacements for 1.5 years. If that is not the definition of EPIDEMIC PART FAILURE I don’t know what is. Sure wish there was a “whistleblower” at Spartan [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23].
Going to start the search for a corporate law expert who will take this on contingency. I don’ t want any damages just my out of pocket, lawyer can keep the rest. In Texas, fraud often gets treble damages I am told.
Ill be watching this for sure, have not had a failure yet, But???
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