Transfer switch issue

[Steve 716]

In my 2016 Anthem, Entegra installed a one and done Surge Guard transfer switch. One and done means that once you get a healthy surge the surge suppression circuitry no longer functions. It's possible that your first pedestal generated the surge. In speaking with other RV owners it seems that the same Surge guard model probably will still work but various squirrelly things can occur. I have verified this with PJ at Entegra. I also had similar issues with a 30 amp Surge Guard in a previously owned RV. I don't know why Entegra uses this particular switch, or even why the make it, but they do.

As soon as I learned from PJ that I had a one an done I replaced it with a Progressive EMS-HW50C transfer switch and surge suppressor, mounted it on the floor behind my power cord reel where there was plenty of room for it, and mounted the remote display on the wall by my bin door. You might want to consider the same. I have hooked up to a few bad pedestals since and the Progressive has kept my coach and I safe.

[777 Driver]

Originally Posted by Steve 716

In my 2016 Anthem, Entegra installed a one and done Surge Guard transfer switch. One and done means that once you get a healthy surge the surge suppression circuitry no longer functions. It's possible that your first pedestal generated the surge. In speaking with other RV owners it seems that the same Surge guard model probably will still work but various squirrelly things can occur. I have verified this with PJ at Entegra. I also had similar issues with a 30 amp Surge Guard in a previously owned RV. I don't know why Entegra uses this particular switch, or even why the make it, but they do.

As soon as I learned from PJ that I had a one an done I replaced it with a Progressive EMS-HW50C transfer switch and surge suppressor, mounted it on the floor behind my power cord reel where there was plenty of room for it, and mounted the remote display on the wall by my bin door. You might want to consider the same. I have hooked up to a few bad pedestals since and the Progressive has kept my coach and I safe.

To the best of my knowledge, Progressive Industries does not make a transfer switch. The Progressive EMS-HW50C documentation shows that it provides these features:

*Over/Under Voltage Protection
*Open Ground, Open Neutral & Reverse Polarity Detection
*Accidental 240V Protection
*Miswired Pedestal Indication
*Surge Failure Indicator
*Amperage Meter Display
*Previous Error Code
*A/C Frequency Protection
*Time Delay (136 seconds)
*Adjustable Time Delay
*Thermally Protected
*Remote Display w/Scrolling Digital Display
*Field Serviceable
*UL Certified and Canadian Approved
*Lifetime Warranty

It is not a transfer switch. It won't replace a transfer switch. A transfer switch is necessary to connect shore power or generator power to the coach electrical system.

The usual installation of the Progressive EMS-HW50C is between the shore power (cord reel) and the transfer switch. The Progressive EMS-HW50C checks the incoming power after the cord reel for the conditions listed above. Once the Progressive EMS-HW50C is convinced that the power meets it's test criteria, it passes the power to the transfer switch.

The Progressive EMS-HW50C and the transfer switch are two separate pieces of equipment and are not interchangeable.

For coaches with the VegaTouch system, I believe that it's essential that any transfer switch are RVC compatible. Without the data connection between the transfer switch and the VegaTouch, you wont be able to read volts/amps on the VegaTouch and, I'm guessing, your VegaTouch might display some sort of fault. I really don't think it would be a good idea to do that.

Take care,
Stu

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by 777 Driver

To the best of my knowledge, Progressive Industries does not make a transfer switch. The Progressive EMS-HW50C documentation shows that it provides these features:

*Over/Under Voltage Protection
*Open Ground, Open Neutral & Reverse Polarity Detection
*Accidental 240V Protection
*Miswired Pedestal Indication
*Surge Failure Indicator
*Amperage Meter Display
*Previous Error Code
*A/C Frequency Protection
*Time Delay (136 seconds)
*Adjustable Time Delay
*Thermally Protected
*Remote Display w/Scrolling Digital Display
*Field Serviceable
*UL Certified and Canadian Approved
*Lifetime Warranty

It is not a transfer switch. It won't replace a transfer switch. A transfer switch is necessary to connect shore power or generator power to the coach electrical system.

The usual installation of the Progressive EMS-HW50C is between the shore power (cord reel) and the transfer switch. The Progressive EMS-HW50C checks the incoming power after the cord reel for the conditions listed above. Once the Progressive EMS-HW50C is convinced that the power meets it's test criteria, it passes the power to the transfer switch.

The Progressive EMS-HW50C and the transfer switch are two separate pieces of equipment and are not interchangeable.

For coaches with the VegaTouch system, I believe that it's essential that any transfer switch are RVC compatible. Without the data connection between the transfer switch and the VegaTouch, you wont be able to read volts/amps on the VegaTouch and, I'm guessing, your VegaTouch might display some sort of fault. I really don't think it would be a good idea to do that.

Take care,
Stu

Stu, totally agree with your assessment, The HW50C is great for supplementing a Transfer Switch but it can't replace it. The HW50C was an especially beneficial supplement for the transfer switch used in the older Entegra's which had no (or limited) fault sensing and minimal surge suppression, such as the SurgeGuard 41290 on my 2017 Aspire. The 41290 does not have field replaceable surge "fuses" and the entire unit needs replacement should they fail, whereas the HW50C surge module can be replaced in the field.

The Vegatouch coaches however have a more advanced unit 40350RVC or 40450RVC which have better surge protection and can detect and report most line faults. And you are correct that an RV-C model is required so it can report those faults (as well as AC voltage, frequency and current for each leg) to the network and Vegatouch.

According to the OP, the issue is a reported *fault*, not a surge issue, although blown surge "fuses" is one of many possible faults, but not one that would keep the transfer switch from operating normally (according to Surge Guard). Unfortunately it doesn't sound like the Vegatouch is indicating specifically which fault.

The 40350RVC can report the following faults: Open Ground, Open Neutral, Reverse Polarity, L1/L2 Open, high/low voltage, high/low frequency and Check Surge which indicates a surge fuse has blown (but that won't keep the transfer switch from operating). Here is the troubleshooting guide. RV-C can report all those faults and more.

If we knew exactly which fault, that would help narrow the troubleshooting focus.

Failing that, to the OP, you might want to take a look at a few things before considering a replacement. Your transfer switch hasn't necessarily failed, it is simply telling you it is sensing something is wrong and may very well be doing you a big favor by not engaging. The fact that the fault does not occur with the generator would lead me to focus specifically on the shore wiring from the transfer switch connections, working back thru the cord reel, the shore cord and even the plug on the power pole end of the cord. It could be as simple as a loose or broken wire somewhere. I would start with a visual inspection and then move up to a voltmeter if you are comfortable with that. The power pole itself is also a prime suspect although it sounds like you possibly have ruled that out?

Also, it would be nice to know exactly what the fault is, perhaps a call to Firefly would help reveal that info. You could also try calling Surge Guard, their number is on the document linked above.

BTW, the fault reporting of the 40350 is equal or better than the HW50C, however, the ability to service a blown surge component in the field is not clear, although the above linked document hints that it is. Also, doesn't help the OP, but just a plug, eRVin now reports specific AC line faults.

[cyclist0920]

I have a 2018 Anthem with the standard transfer switch & surge protector installed by Entegra. The previous owner had an additional built in Surge protector installed. We had an intermittent problem that took about 6 months to diagnose, with Entegra & NIRV both attempting to ascertain the source. The problem: when we went to plug into shore power it wouldn’t switch off the inverters. Additionally, we had issues with the system switching to inverters, on its own, while connected to shore power. The first time we detected the issue, lack of shore power caused our batteries to fully deplete leading to house battery failure (another story). NIRV (Las Vegas & Atlanta) & Entegra evaluated the issue. Entegra said it was a faulty power cord causing it to overheat, thereby causing the transfer switch to shut down shore power. Replace power cord. Several weeks later same problem. Long story short, it ended up being the internal surge protector, in my opinion. They thought it was either the transfer switch or the surge protector. NIRV doesn’t recommend (at least the people I work with) internal surge protectors, for a number of reasons (another discussion). I had a top of the line Pole Mounted Surge Protector from my 5th Wheel days. Removed the built in, and started using the pole mounted, and have not had any issues for over a year. May not apply to your situation, but if you have an internal surge protector, you may want to look at it before you replace the transfer switch

[Douglee25]

Originally Posted by cyclist0920

I have a 2018 Anthem with the standard transfer switch & surge protector installed by Entegra. The previous owner had an additional built in Surge protector installed. We had an intermittent problem that took about 6 months to diagnose, with Entegra & NIRV both attempting to ascertain the source. The problem: when we went to plug into shore power it wouldn’t switch off the inverters. Additionally, we had issues with the system switching to inverters, on its own, while connected to shore power. The first time we detected the issue, lack of shore power caused our batteries to fully deplete leading to house battery failure (another story). NIRV (Las Vegas & Atlanta) & Entegra evaluated the issue. Entegra said it was a faulty power cord causing it to overheat, thereby causing the transfer switch to shut down shore power. Replace power cord. Several weeks later same problem. Long story short, it ended up being the internal surge protector, in my opinion. They thought it was either the transfer switch or the surge protector. NIRV doesn’t recommend (at least the people I work with) internal surge protectors, for a number of reasons (another discussion). I had a top of the line Pole Mounted Surge Protector from my 5th Wheel days. Removed the built in, and started using the pole mounted, and have not had any issues for over a year. May not apply to your situation, but if you have an internal surge protector, you may want to look at it before you replace the transfer switch

They recommend the Hughes unit?

[roger8070]

Originally Posted by Douglee25

They recommend the Hughes unit?

Check any reviews you can find. We had a Hughes Power Watchdog PWD50EPO on our current coach. The bluetooth feature is what sold us on this unit. We started having constant notifications on the app that power to the coach was disconnected. However, nothing in the coach indicated this. We had the pedestal power checked and even replaced the 50 amp breaker. After a month of this I contacted Hughes tech support. They of course never heard of this problem. After some discussion and troubleshooting they reluctantly replaced the surge protector.

All was good for about 6 months and the same issues started again. Also, this time the LED "Park Power Neutral Is Missing" was also turned on. Again checked, no problem with park power. The electrician noted this: "Pedestal tested good. Surge protector had a 10 volt drop under a 20 ampere load. That is not terrible but it is outside the National Electrical Code 6% voltage drop. Obviously it would be even a higher voltage drop at 50 amperes." An RV repair technician in the resort also reported that he came across numerous failed watchdogs in his service calls and would not recommend them.

After checking the limited lifetime warranty and finding that shipping is on me with no guarantee that Hughes would find a problem and replace the unit, I replaced it with the Progressive hard wired surge protector. Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

[Douglee25]

Originally Posted by roger8070

Check any reviews you can find. We had a Hughes Power Watchdog PWD50EPO on our current coach. The bluetooth feature is what sold us on this unit. We started having constant notifications on the app that power to the coach was disconnected. However, nothing in the coach indicated this. We had the pedestal power checked and even replaced the 50 amp breaker. After a month of this I contacted Hughes tech support. They of course never heard of this problem. After some discussion and troubleshooting they reluctantly replaced the surge protector.

All was good for about 6 months and the same issues started again. Also, this time the LED "Park Power Neutral Is Missing" was also turned on. Again checked, no problem with park power. The electrician noted this: "Pedestal tested good. Surge protector had a 10 volt drop under a 20 ampere load. That is not terrible but it is outside the National Electrical Code 6% voltage drop. Obviously it would be even a higher voltage drop at 50 amperes." An RV repair technician in the resort also reported that he came across numerous failed watchdogs in his service calls and would not recommend them.

After checking the limited lifetime warranty and finding that shipping is on me with no guarantee that Hughes would find a problem and replace the unit, I replaced it with the Progressive hard wired surge protector. Just my experience, your mileage may vary.

Thanks for the insight.

[Gowenfast]

This is what I see inside the transfer switch, and on my VT

[simonglet]

Originally Posted by Gowenfast

Thanks for the pictures. I haven't removed the cover on my ATS yet, but I will, and report back. Thanks, David

I replaced the ATS and added some fire detection :-)


https://www.irv2.com/forums/attachme...1&d=1664304155

[Douglee25]

Nice!

You can get get wifi and bluetooth based smoke detectors that pair with your phone as another method to give you notice.

[777 Driver]

I've installed these: First Alert SA511CN2-3ST Wireless Interconnected Smoke Alarm with Voice Location, Battery Operated. They connect by their own, internal WiFi (no need for a separate router) and voice announce by location of detection. I installed one in the bedroom and one in the basement. IF the basement unit detects smoke, in addition to the loud horn, the unit in the bedroom announces: "FIRE - BASEMENT".

Take care,
Stu

[simonglet]

Originally Posted by Gowenfast

Attachment 375297

Attachment 375298This is what I see inside the transfer switch, and on my VT

@Gowenfast -> From your picture, I would check the red wire that goes from the left switch to the right one. The connection on the right switch seems pulled.


Cheers
Simon

[simonglet]

Originally Posted by Douglee25

Nice!

You can get get wifi and bluetooth based smoke detectors that pair with your phone as another method to give you notice.

That would have been much better indeed! :-) Version 2 coming up.

[Gowenfast]

Originally Posted by simonglet

@Gowenfast -> From your picture, I would check the red wire that goes from the left switch to the right one. The connection on the right switch seems pulled.


Cheers
Simon

I think I see what you are pointing out. I'll check that connection. I can see bare wire on that wire, but not on the rest. Thanks for the suggestion, David