Community Forums

edge68474 · 02-04-2019, 06:02 PM

I read Matts link and that is pretty interesting. I wonder if on the reflector if it would hurt the performance of the reflector if I put some sealant over the fasteners to prevent any moisture from getting into the fasteners??

oneknight · 02-04-2019, 06:27 PM

I took it off and put it back on today without seeing any problem, and also without changing the symptom. I did verify that it simply is not moving at all, not even trying.

Winegard's solution is for me to send it in for repair, $350 including return shipping. 3 weeks. As compared to the alternatives, this is cheaper by half. I'll just have to live without satellite for 3 weeks plus.

My first Trav'ler (which I installed) was still going strong when I traded the Monaco after 8 years. (I only caulked around the edge of the transition plate and the screwholes)

This one is an Entegra factory installation. Oddly, the window sticker shows a Direct TV Trav'ler, mine is Dish, I guess it's been converted? System type is set for "LG Dish 1000"
The entire top of the transition plate is covered with thick black caulk, same like Dave's pic in post 5 of your link. You say this is bad?

When I took it apart, I took off the gray part, the raw aluminum plate with the ring gear in it stayed put, as did that plastic part.
There was some water under the plastic, above was pretty dry. There was some moisture in the box where the cables come in.
inside the turret itself was dry, and everything that was supposed to move moved easily by hand.

Do I want to scrape all that excess caulk off the transition plate?
When I take it off to send it in, do I want to go down one more layer, leave the transition plate on and send everything else?

Matt D · 02-04-2019, 08:12 PM

Jim, I don’t think there is supposed to be moisture inside, at all. I would suggest talking to Winegard about your findings and see what they say.

As regards how much to remove.. I’d suggest leaving the Transition Plate in place and sending the Turret, minus the LNB and Reflector.

When they sent my Turret, the only component was the Turret itself, no Transition Plate, LNB, or Reflector.

It’s too bad Winegard can’t repair these on an exchange basis, but I guess that would be problematic due to running changes and changes in revisions internally.

In spite of our chronic issues with the Trav’ler, Winegard was always responsive and helpful. We no longer use ours, but it functions fine when I exercise it.

I wish you luck,

-Matt

Gary.Jones · 02-05-2019, 07:36 AM

Mine was installed by the dealer since it was "forgotten" on the Anthem that I bought in 15. So, the dealer and the Direct TV mobile guy did the installation. they used DICOR to seal the unit to the roof by adding the DICOR only around the base plate and the roof. The DICOR spreads itself out so it came up over the edge of the mounting base plate and covered the screw holes. To my memory, there was no other DICOR on the unit and the rest was as it came from Winegard. Never had a problem with that unit in 3 years. Also, I mounted a TRAV'Ler (Direct) on my Monaco myself a few years before the Anthem, and I mounted it the same way I described above.

Cant imagine any need for any sealant above the base plate. Also, agreee with Matt that I dont think that you should have any moisture anywhere in the system. Make sure that the wires come out and immediately bend down so that any moisture from rain or condensation run away from the entrance holes. There was no DICOR on the coax connectors and their connectors into the unit.

The factory refurb is probably the way I would go also if I was out of warranty.

Gary

edge68474 · 02-05-2019, 08:48 AM

Winegard replaced everything except the LNB and reflector dish. I was hoping that I would be able to leave the base plate and then just bolt up the rest myself. On mine, the vapor barrier covered the very bottom of the base plate. So the whole thing had to be removed from the coach, reinstalled and then sealed. When the weather gets warmer, it's pretty cold here for awhile, I am going up and make sure all looks good and no water can get in. I liked the idea of draining the water away from the dish, and, maybe do some sealing if needed.
Take care.

oneknight · 02-11-2019, 07:41 PM

Done and fixed.

I found a dealer who'd cross ship a turret for a little more than double winegard's "30 day plan", it came in today and I installed it.

These things are heavy. If you do it yourself, be careful on the ladder.

The old one was a mess. Matt, you were right on. The huge bead of caulking Entegra put on for no reason creates a Dam that backs up any rain until it gets under the unit. There was actually a puddle under it!

The bottom of the unit clearly showed all the moisture that was getting past the gasket and inside the unit. I'm sure this was the cause of the failure.

Note step 6 of the installation instructions:
6. Run a solid bead of sealant around the edge where the transition plate meets the roof, making sure to cover each
screw head. Be careful not to get any sealant above the transition plate.

Note:
AROUND THE EDGE
further note:
BE CAREFUL NOT TO GET ANY SEALANT ABOVE THE TRANSITION PLATE.

Dammit guys. I love this coach. It's beautiful. The floorplan is perfect. It drives like a Bentley.

And every single problem I've had with it has been due to just plain lousy manufacturing workmanship.

My prior Monaco was assembled with 100 times the workmanship, even with a skeleton crew, leftover parts, and chapter 7 a few weeks away.

It was after dark when I finished today. Tomorrow if it's not raining, I'll go back up there and put a dab of caulk on those 8 screws that penetrate the roof, per the instructions.

Dave, and anyone else who's Trav'ler caulking looks like mine and Matt's, get up on the roof and scrape that stuff off, before your antenna locks up too.

brobox · 02-11-2019, 09:01 PM

Jim, yours and Matt's post are very interesting. Many have ordered the Traveler, then had the dealer switch it over to DISH because it is "factory installed" It now looks like factory installation is wrong and has been the cause of a lot of the turret failures. Nice post, thanks for sharing.
Thanks to post like yours and others, I had the 19 roughed in for the RF Mogul then installed after delivery.

Matt D · 02-11-2019, 09:03 PM

Well done Jim, I’m happy to hear you got that resolved.

-Matt

voltdoc · 02-16-2019, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneknight

Done and fixed.

I found a dealer who'd cross ship a turret for a little more than double winegard's "30 day plan", it came in today and I installed it.

These things are heavy. If you do it yourself, be careful on the ladder.

The old one was a mess. Matt, you were right on. The huge bead of caulking Entegra put on for no reason creates a Dam that backs up any rain until it gets under the unit. There was actually a puddle under it!

The bottom of the unit clearly showed all the moisture that was getting past the gasket and inside the unit. I'm sure this was the cause of the failure.

Note step 6 of the installation instructions:
6. Run a solid bead of sealant around the edge where the transition plate meets the roof, making sure to cover each
screw head. Be careful not to get any sealant above the transition plate.

Note:
AROUND THE EDGE
further note:
BE CAREFUL NOT TO GET ANY SEALANT ABOVE THE TRANSITION PLATE.

Dammit guys. I love this coach. It's beautiful. The floorplan is perfect. It drives like a Bentley.

And every single problem I've had with it has been due to just plain lousy manufacturing workmanship.

My prior Monaco was assembled with 100 times the workmanship, even with a skeleton crew, leftover parts, and chapter 7 a few weeks away.

It was after dark when I finished today. Tomorrow if it's not raining, I'll go back up there and put a dab of caulk on those 8 screws that penetrate the roof, per the instructions.

Dave, and anyone else who's Trav'ler caulking looks like mine and Matt's, get up on the roof and scrape that stuff off, before your antenna locks up too.

Thanks for this great info although its now too late for me too. Unfortunately I missed Matt's original post about the excessive caulking allowing water to be retained.

Mine gives various errors with AZ and EL, Home failure, etc. The odd part is the EL, AZ and skew motors all appear to work when I have tried the calibration reset for example.

Being out of warranty now by 4 months, Winegard of course wants me to return the turret. They refuse to ship me a swap part.

Jim, wondering when you say you found a dealer who would cross ship a turret, was that an RV dealer or Satellite dealer?

Jpcoleman · 02-16-2019, 04:54 PM

I installed one on my old Suncruiser, being very careful to only cover the plate edges and screws. I also put down one of those oblong plates for the roller to contact. That went under everything. I never once had a problem. Now with my new to me 2016 Anthem I have had one “pause” that luckily restarted and stowed. Thankfully I can keep it in enclosed storage, but I will be on the roof next week to check the caulk. Thanks for the info. It may have just saved my turret.

oneknight · 02-17-2019, 09:54 AM

Rob,
It's a dealer in Texas who specializes only in mobile (RV) satellite solutions.
They walk a very fine line between retaining their Winegard authorization and providing what they consider good service to their customers.

I'll send you a PM.

voltdoc · 02-26-2019, 04:29 PM

So the weather cleared long enough for me to remove the turret and do an inspection. Basically the same deal as Matt D and oneknight, the flanges where the turret base meets the transition plate and the foam gasket for the vapor barrier were saturated and there was a puddle of standing water beneath the vapor barrier. There was also a lot of what appeared to be oxidation of the aluminum flanges (white mush) where they were kept constantly wet for so long.

Photos here.

Like others, mine had excessive factory applied sealant that in some places extended well up onto the turret. Cut it all back to be level with the top of the transition plate. Having gone thru the exercise I now understand more clearly how the water is being dammed by the sealant, absorbed by the foam gasket and therefore accumulating in the base without any way to escape.

Inside the turret and above the vapor barrier all looked clean and there was no sign of water entry from the top, but I would assume all that water in the foam created a high humidify condition inside the turret. Since all my motors worked when performing diagnostics and I can move them by hand, my assumption is the circuit board in the turret has failed due to the high moisture atmosphere.

Anyone with the same overzealous sealant job needs to seriously consider getting up there and cutting it back so the gasket can dry out, especially those in damp climates. If you want to remove the turret for inspection it is only nine screws, but make sure you remove the right ones - see page 2 of this document for an illustration.

Unfortunately this repair will be on my dime. I was looking at RF Mogul as a replacement option and had some great conversations with them, but I need a unit that supports DISH Eastern Arc satellites and right now RF Mogul simply can't do it. However, I think support for EA may be coming in the future.

Those of you with DISH considering an RF Mogul and frequenting the eastern US need to consider this. At this time the vast majority of markets from Maine as far west as Iowa and Missouri and as far south as Alabama and Louisiana do NOT broadcast HD locals on the Western Arc (110/119/129), so if you want HD locals you will need to be able to tune at least one sat in the EA (usually 61.5). This map does a great job of illustrating the situation.

oneknight · 02-27-2019, 03:06 PM

Another thing with the locals is "prime time anytime"
While I can get my home base Knoxville locals (probably sd) on Western arc, primetime anytime won't work at all.

voltdoc · 03-02-2019, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneknight

Another thing with the locals is "prime time anytime"
While I can get my home base Knoxville locals (probably sd) on Western arc, primetime anytime won't work at all.

Yeah, Prime Time Anytime does not work with the SD locals. Besides who wants to watch SD anyway? Have you tried manually tuning 61.5? That will give you HD locals, Prime Time Anytime and a big chunk of the other programming in HD, but if you have premiums you may only get a subset of them. Lately for us, 61.5 by itself has covered everything we want to watch in HD.

Here's a link for the details of the Knoxville market:
Here's a link for the entire market listing.

Note re the above links, if you click on the "Spotbeam xx" in the column you will get a map showing the coverage for that spotbeam. Can be useful when you are traveling as most cover a fairly wide area and you don't always need to update your service address if you are within range of the spotbeam.

The current prevalence of the DISH EA is something that seems to be lost on Winegard. The issue used to be that 129 in the Western Arc was practically impossible to hit in the northeast and Winegard got away with ignoring this relatively small market. Now however, DISH has transitioned programming so the vast majority of markets in the Eastern half of the US have HD locals only on the EA and either SD locals or no locals on the WA. Even in Iowa where Winegard is located, at least two major markets there have HD locals on the EA only! This is affecting probably every Trav'ler/DISH RV'er located in the eastern US.

To properly fix this an EA LNB swap out is required plus Winegard would need to modify their firmware so it would find at least 61.5/72 and adjust the skew appropriately.

When we return to RI in the summer where Providence has NO SD alternative at all and EA is mandatory, I swap to an EA LNB (61.5/72 only) - it fits fine on the Trav'ler. I then manually tune 72. Once it locks on 72 I do a check switch and even with zero skew I still get both 72 and 61.5. This works all throughout NE, NY and as far west as OH. West of OH I need to get on the roof and manually adjust the skew to reliably get both sats. If Winegard supported the EA I could leave my EA LNB in place practically everywhere in the eastern half of the US.

Check out the map. Anything with an H in the red half circle and a S in the blue half circle will get HD locals and Prime Time Anytime on the EA only.