Community Forums

palehorse89 · 01-12-2015, 06:27 PM

Something of interest Russell?
Maybe you knew??

From Spartan:

WARRANTY & ROADSIDE ASSISTANCE

Every Spartan chassis comes with a best in class 3 years / 50,000 miles transferable warranty with no deductibles. Our chassis also boasts an industry first lifetime warranty on the frame as well as a Cummins 5 years / 100,000 miles warranty and an Allison 5 years / 200,000 miles warranty.

Included in the limited warranty is roadside assistance* provided by Coach-Net which offers service/towing through 40,000 service and repair facilities in the U.S. and Canada.
http://spartanchassis.com/rv/service.asp

Dr4Film · 01-12-2015, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palehorse89

Is the Charge air cooler stacked in front of the radiator Ruessell? Like most?
Do you know what I mean?

My 2002 Monaco Windsor has the following stacked condenser arrangement.

Not sure what the Entegra's are or others.

Outside is the Dash A/C condenser with the Hydraulic Fluid condenser below it, followed with the huge CAC condenser in the middle and the Engine Coolant condenser to the back or closest to the engine.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

DSL417 · 01-13-2015, 12:22 AM

Just in the for what it is worth, road debris and rocks do come off the road (from the tires, I am assuming) and enter the engine compartment. I am saying this because in both my Anthem and my CS, I have found rocks up to a half inch in length setting in, of all the places, the tray underneath the engine access cowling at the rear of the coach.

So that said, road debris can be thrown up by the rear and tag axle. having discussed this with other owners at several rallies, this doesn't seem to be that uncommon. So, if it turns out to be debris from a common highway system that caused the damage, I would think that is coverable by your insurance policy. If it is not, then it has to be some type of defect that should be covered by warranty. It would seem that no one will act till the examination occurs, unless the service outfit can definitively say. While you may have to pay the labor initially, I'd work BOTH the warranty and the insurance angle (as road debris damage should be a covered issue). Let the insurance and manufacturer fight it out. Frustrating, but given the infrequency that this has happened (contrary to one poster's comments), probably not surprising, albeit disappointing:( JMHO

brobox · 01-13-2015, 06:37 AM

I have followed this post closely, I remember the Travel Supreme had a sheet metal scatter shield covering the bottom of the radiator, not easy to fix when it came loose.

Now that I think of it, I don't believe that Entegra has that. After this post I can see there may still be a need for that shield that use to cover the lower part of the radiator. It might be worth a call to Ted Cook to ask about that....he was the design engineer on the TS and now holds the same position at Entegra.

Just my experience, but I have had a lot of dealings with Spartan on my coach and they have been fantastic covering all of the issues, even to fly an engineer down to find what kept causing the same problem.

I hate to say this, but I think you have a catch 22 situation. Spartan knows how that side radiator use to be covered on the previous maker of our MH's and is saying it's not protected now. Just my opinion, but I think I would ask Ted Cook about the cause if it does turn out to be road debris. I also agree with calling your insurance company, some insurance companies might even cover the cost of flying the DW home.

smlranger · 01-13-2015, 06:58 AM

I still have a few questions about how this could happen (not to criticize Entegra but to better understand how any of us with side rad coaches might be vulnerable).

Is this damage on the outside of the cooling pack (the road side) or on the inside (engine side)? I have also seen small rocks (along with sand, dirt) laying in corners of the engine bay of my coach. However, most of the side rad configurations I've seen have a shroud around the fan which would provide protection for the engine side of the cooling pack. On my coach, you cannot see any of the radiator core from the engine bay unless you look inside the fan shroud.

So, assuming the Entegra has a fan shroud and fan is pulling air into the engine compartment, I am still trying to understand how the radiator core could sustain rock damage. Unless of course, the damage is on the road side of the core which, IMO, would still be a very rare thing.

I hope you get a satisfactory resolution to this dilemma.

brobox · 01-13-2015, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smlranger

I still have a few questions about how this could happen (not to criticize Entegra but to better understand how any of us with side rad coaches might be vulnerable).

I am going to take a closer look at my coach in the next couple of days and compare the radiator mounting. I will take a photo and post it.

Dr4Film · 01-13-2015, 08:18 AM

Regarding fans and shrouds, if there were no shroud the effectiveness of the fan drops off significantly. All vehicle condensers will/should have a shroud to direct the air flow to where it is most effective.

To prevent this from happening again, IF it truly was road debris that caused the failure, is to protect that area of the condenser stack with rock deflection.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

akadeadeye · 01-13-2015, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcarriere

Sorry Don, it is Cattlemans Steakhouse...Cattleman's Steakhouse, visit a legendary Texas Steakhouse

We decided to go tomorrow instead....very windy tonight and we want to make sure we are hungry before we go.

Yep. That's the place. Couldn't remember the name of it. Thanks. I think they must have moved though. I remember driving up onto the mountain.

Don

hogdriver · 01-13-2015, 08:29 AM

As far as road debris damaging the cooling system or engine I'm wondering if this is truly happening then maybe it is a design defect.

Now hold on before everyone gets their dander up!

What I mean is a cheap change in the design EC builds could maybe mitigate this. My old Monaco had small mud flaps behind the aft wheels and it also had the giant mud flap at the rear. I don't think the Entegra coaches have that.

oakcreekeric · 01-13-2015, 08:43 AM

I know this isn't a direction you want to take.. but I thought I would interject it, just in case..

I did a bit of research on warranty laws, I wasn't able to determine if the jurisdiction would be your home state, or Texas, where the breakdown occurred. I do know, here in the State of Wisconsin, we have very strong consumer protection laws. A simple call to the Insurance Commissioner or, better yet, the Consumer Protection Division of the Attorney Generals office usually is enough to scare most companies into seeing things your way... I have used this tactic to my advantage several times.

Now.. I'm sure you are well versed on these matters.. but I would make sure you are documenting this whole process.. I know you are via pictures.. but I would suggest (if you're not already doing so) getting the "name, rank and serial number" of any person at Spartan you have spoken with... its amazing the attention you get when you ask these simple questions when speaking with a representative from a company;

What is your full name?
What is your Title?
What is your employee number?

Traditionally, when I start to ask these questions, the representative usually asks "why do you need that information"... and my response is something to the effect of.. I am looking at the complaint/dispute application from the State of Wisconsin's Consumer Protection Division of the Attorney Generals Office and this information is needed to process my complaint/dispute against your company.. and once I've said that, I usually get put on hold and things start to turn in my favor..

Additionally, I would start a timeline of the events, and of course, a detailed log of expenses.

Another piece of information I found is via the Federal route.. I've attached a link, just in case you're interested in some easy reading..

Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law | Federal Trade Commission

Again.. I hope things don't have to go this far.. and I'm sure you're a smart enough man to know all of this.. but with everything going on.. I just wanted to make sure it was something you thought of...

Again, Good Luck !!!

DSL417 · 01-13-2015, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zman62

It seems pretty clear that spartan and entegra see an element of doubt here and rather than take care of the customer they are leaving you high and dry. Not good at all

So the tech says road debris. Spartan is sending a radiator replacement, if I understand, for no charge. Road debris damage is covered by comprehensive insurance. The manufacturer can't file the claim for damage to the insurer; the insured must file that claim.

So I would ask, how does this rate as poor service? As a business, if you have no liability other than the perceptions of good will, or lack thereof, the most practical BUSINESS response would to recommend turning this into the insurance agent for reimbursement, yet Spartan responded as best it could, taking into consideration the plight of the owner. Further, they a sending a replacement, probably at a cost of $3-5k, even though their liability may be questionable.

I certainly empathize with the situation...and I applaud that Spartan is sending a radiator at no charge. Contact the insurance company. JMHO, the insurance company needs to have an adjuster involved, to talk to the service agent as well as be involved in the post inspection of the radiator. This would seem a prudent path.

zman62 · 01-13-2015, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417

So the tech says road debris. Spartan is sending a radiator replacement, if I understand, for no charge. Road debris damage is covered by comprehensive insurance. The manufacturer can't file the claim for damage to the insurer; the insured must file that claim.

So I would ask, how does this rate as poor service? As a business, if you have no liability other than the perceptions of good will, or lack thereof, the most practical BUSINESS response would to recommend turning this into the insurance agent for reimbursement, yet Spartan responded as best it could, taking into consideration the plight of the owner. Further, they a sending a replacement, probably at a cost of $3-5k, even though their liability may be questionable.

I certainly empathize with the situation...and I applaud that Spartan is sending a radiator at no charge. Contact the insurance company. JMHO, the insurance company needs to have an adjuster involved, to talk to the service agent as well as be involved in the post inspection of the radiator. This would seem a prudent path.

My thought is to show good customer service entegra and spartan should have just fixed the problem and sent the customer on his way. Once the customer is happy spartan and entegra can work it out between them. This is chump change in the big picture. It would have been worth it just to have had a thread that touted "how entegra/spartan took care of me" instead of this thread. We currently own a company where we deal with these decisions regularly and they are never easy. We call it protecting the down side.

rcarriere · 01-13-2015, 09:28 AM

A lot of people are recommending that I file a claim on my insurance for the labor costs. Unfortunately, this will not work as my deductible is higher than what the labor costs will be.

Regarding detailing and writing down who, when, where, and how...yes this has been done and continues.

Not to be a drama queen but now that DW is home she has decided she does not want to do this anymore. (rv) She wants me to put the coach up for sale and not buy another. This does not make me very happy! I am hoping that once we get passed this issue and the others with the coach that we can move forward and still be part of this great community but I have a feeling that she has made up her mind. As the saying goes..."happy wife, happy life".

I just hope that I can get back on the road by the end of the week and be back in FL by Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

oakcreekeric · 01-13-2015, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcarriere

A lot of people are recommending that I file a claim on my insurance for the labor costs. Unfortunately, this will not work as my deductible is higher than what the labor costs will be.

Regarding detailing and writing down who, when, where, and how...yes this has been done and continues.

Not to be a drama queen but now that DW is home she has decided she does not want to do this anymore. (rv) She wants me to put the coach up for sale and not buy another. This does not make me very happy! I am hoping that once we get passed this issue and the others with the coach that we can move forward and still be part of this great community but I have a feeling that she has made up her mind. As the saying goes..."happy wife, happy life".

I just hope that I can get back on the road by the end of the week and be back in FL by Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

Wow.. Russell, I'm sorry to hear this.. I truly hope she is reacting emotionally and this doesn't happen...