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Old 11-24-2020, 07:04 PM   #1
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Update on my DEF sensors situation.

I spoke with both Spartan and Shaw Development, the manufacture of the DEF sensors.

My 19 had a Gen 5 sensor which was subject to failure with above average ammonia content. I was guilty of that, my DEF even smelled like ammonia when I changed it from sitting to long.

How do you prevent it? Use the DEF or change it before the ammonia count gets to high I will be having a conversation with one of the managers at Shaw next week and find out more.

After the conversation with Spartan, my 21 also has a Gen 5 DEF head sensor. With my luck, I received one of the chassis that the DEF sensor was not updated on. J.H's 20, built 7/19 does have a Gen 6 DEF head, we checked that on the computer. There is no answer why earlier chassis have Gen 6 DEF sensors and mine has a Gen 5. My chassis was built 11/19 with a gen 5 sensor. Good news, at least the Gen 6's aren't failing like the 5's, as far as I know.
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Old 11-24-2020, 10:06 PM   #2
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Chuck, you know the old saying: "Some guys have all the luck."

Obviously you're not one of them!

As for the Gen 6 sensors not failing as frequently as the Gen 5's, a friend of mine who has a Tiffin Allegro Bus was told the Gen 6's are failing with pretty much the same regularity as the Gen 5's. Hopefully that's not the case.
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:10 AM   #3
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Larry,
I think it was Buddy110 that said I was a "test mule for Spartan". I think he was correct more than he realizes. If it is a troubled unit Spartan has in stock it will be put on the chassis I get. I know you know what I am referring to.

My 21 coach mystery is solved, I received an "old" DEF sensor. I hope to have more answers for others with the Gen 6 sensor. The person that returned my call from Shaw spoke broken English and he was not able to answer in depth question regarding DEF sensor. The department head that is at liberty to answer questions is off for the holiday weekend.
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:53 AM   #4
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Larry,
I think it was Buddy110 that said I was a "test mule for Spartan". I think he was correct more than he realizes. If it is a troubled unit Spartan has in stock it will be put on the chassis I get. I know you know what I am referring to.

My 21 coach mystery is solved, I received an "old" DEF sensor. I hope to have more answers for others with the Gen 6 sensor. The person that returned my call from Shaw spoke broken English and he was not able to answer in depth question regarding DEF sensor. The department head that is at liberty to answer questions is off for the holiday weekend.
Reference the part number I sent you to that of a gen 5. Oh and BTW HEEEEEE HAWWWWWWW
I'll see myself out now
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:56 AM   #5
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Chuck,
Thanks for the update. Sounds like Spartan will replace your sensors with the new Gen 6’s. Hopefully this solves the problems!
So is the root cause of failures in the Gen 5s the high ammonia concentration? Thanks
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:20 AM   #6
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Chuck,
Thanks for the update. Sounds like Spartan will replace your sensors with the new Gen 6’s. Hopefully this solves the problems!
So is the root cause of failures in the Gen 5s the high ammonia concentration? Thanks
The Gen 6 is at Cummins now and it has been confirmed by Spartan that a Gen 6 was sent.

Speaking with the rep at Shaw, he said it was the sensor in the Gen 5 that ammonia concentration would attack the sensor. How do you prevent that if your coach is stored for 6 month durations? No answer on that yet. I learned from experience that year old DEF in the tank will be to high of an ammonia concentration and the DEF head will quit even after changing the DEF.

Speaking with Spartan, I was told that Shaw subbed out the Gen 5 sensors, the Gen 6 were being manufactured in house. I have not confirmed that yet. From Larry's post and the conversation with Spartan, a few of the Gen 6's have failed, but I do not know that number or why yet. I hope to get that information from Shaw.
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:31 AM   #7
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The Gen 6 is at Cummins now and it has been confirmed by Spartan that a Gen 6 was sent.

Speaking with the rep at Shaw, he said it was the sensor in the Gen 5 that ammonia concentration would attack the sensor. How do you prevent that if your coach is stored for 6 month durations? No answer on that yet. I learned from experience that year old DEF in the tank will be to high of an ammonia concentration and the DEF head will quit even after changing the DEF.

Speaking with Spartan, I was told that Shaw subbed out the Gen 5 sensors, the Gen 6 were being manufactured in house. I have not confirmed that yet. From Larry's post and the conversation with Spartan, a few of the Gen 6's have failed, but I do not know that number or why yet. I hope to get that information from Shaw.
Chuck,
This is an interesting development. As you know my sensor failed while they were prepping her for delivery. Since our coaches were delivered ~ a month apart I wonder of mine was a gen 5. For that matter I wonder what generation they replaced it with? I should check with NIRVC. I'm sure their records would show. I do know that the one which I bought as a spare is a gen 6.

Thanks for all your research and info sharing.
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Old 11-25-2020, 10:44 AM   #8
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Chuck,
This is an interesting development. As you know my sensor failed while they were prepping her for delivery. Since our coaches were delivered ~ a month apart I wonder of mine was a gen 5. For that matter I wonder what generation they replaced it with? I should check with NIRVC. I'm sure their records would show. I do know that the one which I bought as a spare is a gen 6.

Thanks for all your research and info sharing.
Your name and situation came up with brand new coaches not even making it to delivery. If I would have know your last name, Spartan would have pulled it up. The correct part number for the Gen 6 is DM 601-1800F765, substitute the 6 for gen 5.

I am really shocked that Spartan sent known defective sensors out on new chassis built five months, that I know of, after they received Gen 6 sensors. Their computers show which sensor is installed in each chassis. It would not have been that hard to check each VIN number on the computer for Gen 5 sensors before shipping. It was crickets when I asked that question. As you said earlier "test mule"
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:25 AM   #9
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Chuck, Well since I knew my def sensor was a Gen 6 and your chassis was built after mine I assumed “you know what they say about that” that yours would be a Gen 6. I guess they have a bunch of def tanks made up and they just grab one and stick it on a chassis. Luck of the draw if you get a Gen 5 until they’re all gone.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:41 AM   #10
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Chuck, Well since I knew my def sensor was a Gen 6 and your chassis was built after mine I assumed “you know what they say about that” that yours would be a Gen 6. I guess they have a bunch of def tanks made up and they just grab one and stick it on a chassis. Luck of the draw if you get a Gen 5 until they’re all gone.
Nobody was more shocked after discussing your build date than I was. Like you said, luck of the draw and I'll let it go at that.
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Old 11-25-2020, 02:47 PM   #11
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Chuck,
So I have a dumb question. Throughout this thread and others there is mention of “Gen 6 Sensors” and “Gen 6 DEF Heads”. Are the sensors mounted in the Head? So the sensors make them Gen 5 or 6? Also, it’s been mentioned before that there are a myriad of sensors on the system. Is the entire family of sensors Gen 5 or Gen 6 or just the ones in the Head unit? Just wondering how many of these sensors are going to go bad. Maybe I’ve missed something a while back (been known to happen) Color me confused (-: Thanks
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:22 PM   #12
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Chuck,
So I have a dumb question. Throughout this thread and others there is mention of “Gen 6 Sensors” and “Gen 6 DEF Heads”. Are the sensors mounted in the Head? So the sensors make them Gen 5 or 6? Also, it’s been mentioned before that there are a myriad of sensors on the system. Is the entire family of sensors Gen 5 or Gen 6 or just the ones in the Head unit? Just wondering how many of these sensors are going to go bad. Maybe I’ve missed something a while back (been known to happen) Color me confused (-: Thanks
Alec, the DEF sensor is the main part of the DEF head. On the Classic they were being called the "DEF head". Many had problems and had them changed. Today they are being called the DEF sensor and failing at a higher rate due to new regulations. The term sensor came about as that is what the new units are "suppose" to do, sense the concentration of DEF between 32.5 and 37% urethra. Thanks to Buddy110 for the photo of the current Gen 6 DEF sensor. The Gen 5 sensor had problems that the sensor was being attacked by ammonia starting with 6 month old DEF fluid. That is what is being told to me by Shaw, the manufacture. It is the head unit that is causing all of the problems. Hopefully I will know more next week about durability of the Gen 6's. From my expericne the Gen 5's are a total failure.


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Old 11-25-2020, 04:12 PM   #13
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Chuck, I admire your attitude in the midst of this chaos. My blood would be boiling and I would be deep into my second vocabulary.
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Old 11-25-2020, 05:02 PM   #14
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Chuck, I admire your attitude in the midst of this chaos. My blood would be boiling and I would be deep into my second vocabulary.
Thank you. It has turned into a challenge of why I have received two brand new MH's that both have had the DEF sensors go bad in less that 2,000 miles. Might as well share what I am learning as I know I am not the only one having or going to have the problem. If there is a way to prevent it, I hope to be able to find the answer.
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