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Gary.Jones · 04-01-2021, 12:44 PM

Many of the old timers will remember that my 2019 Cornerstone came off the assembly line in late May 2018 and was one of the earliest Cornerstones delivered by NIRVC Atlanta and I had a heck of a time getting the baselines programmed correctly for my loaded coach. My first drive from Georgia to Louisiana was a constant state of alarms ringing and dash warning lights flashing. It was a mess. The TPMS was badly programmed for a loaded coach. NIRVC at that point, had never successfully programmed the TPMS system and reports from me and other owners was that the system was a real mess. Don Rigby (the Valor stateside rep talked the NIRVC tech how to get the dashboard to respond to the wireless programmer for the first time on my coach) with me standing there.

But after Don Rigby (the Valor rep) talked with NIRVC, he showed NIRVC techs how to program the system, and with Don's help, he and I came up with suggestions on what values to use for the baselines. The baselines are NOT the set pressure of the tires... (I think that a lot of owners don't understand that fact) -- what the baselines are is a "decided-upon" pressure that once set, will give meaningful warnings of "concerning" or "critical/dangerous high or low tire pressures". It is not the set tire pressure.

I had so much problem with baselines the first month or two that I decided to buy the wireless programmer that DOES NOT COME standard with the coach. At the time it was about $220 from Don Rigby. It appears that the price has gone up closer to $300 now. But I bought one but have not used it until recently as NIRVC, me, and Don Rigby figured it out and I have not had problems for almost 3.5 years and 32,000 miles. However, Spartan replaced all the pressure sensors back in November 2020 and the techs re-programmed the system after installing the new sensors and I have found that they changed things and it is now not working as well as it did before. You don't have to buy the programmer. Don Ribgy will "loan" you one if you want to program the baselines yourself and you just need to arrange it. I wanted my own.

You can find (by Google search) several owner manuals for semi-truck implementations of the Valor TPMS system on-line, but I have not been able to find an owner's manual that is really written to deal with our Entegra implementation. So I asked Don to send me one if there was a version specifically for an Entegra (and maybe Newmar) manual and he sent me the following.

The first document is an Entegra specific document that details that you must first disconnect the J1939 canbus that runs to the dash. That is because there is so much data moving up and down that bus normally (even if the coach is turned off) that the bus needs to be removed so the dash can sense the wireless signals. So, you must disconnect the three orange wires from the j1939 canbus before you can program the baselines. The second document describes the steps for programming baselines that you have chosen for your tires and your loads on tire positions that you get from 4-corner weights.

I am going to publish a thread up here about the baseline programming process and my 4 corner weights and my decisions and experience with the setting and choice of baselines. I want to put more miles on the coach with these new settings and see how satisfied I am with them before I put that data up here on the forum.

Gary

Gary.Jones · 04-01-2021, 01:27 PM

I forgot to include this image.... This is the Valor SmarTool Wireless Programmer that detects sensor voltages and "talks" to the digital dash "transceiver" in our dashboard and the brains of the Valor TPMS system. Again, I will publish another thread dealing with the pressures, loads, baselines, and programming.

Gary

zman62 · 04-01-2021, 02:23 PM

I am so done with the factory system. It always has some issue yet my tst system right next to it never misses a beat.

Prairie Dog · 04-01-2021, 02:37 PM

I have four Valor sensors I bought for the Jeep, but I doubt I will bother to install them due to cost and reliability issues. I think I'll do aftermarket too.

brobox · 04-01-2021, 02:48 PM

I read the write up, but one question that has not been addressed is why we have a very expensive TPMS system that is an additional $300. do-it-yourself kit? Mine works fine if the temperatures are under 85 degrees, which is maybe 2 months a year in FL.

Gary.Jones · 04-01-2021, 03:42 PM

Well, we are not discussing pluses and minuses of the system in this thread. I am simply presenting some information that addresses how the baselines values are programmed into the Valor / Valid system.

I am going to discuss all of this in a bigger thread later, but just because you made the point here Chuck, I am going to offer the opinion that it is not the problem of the system (any aspect of the system) that your coach is adjusted (apparently according to what you are saying) so that it makes sense and works properly only in 85 degree ambient temperatures, but I think that you are making the point, by implication, that it does not work well in higher or maybe even lower ambient temperatures..... Is that it?

Now my assumption is that if that is what happens, then the problem is in how the system is adjusted which can be produced by any number of problems or miscalculations produced by 1.) the factory, 2.) the owner as he/she loads the coach, 3.) the dealer who prepares the coach, or 4.) other reasons also, but all of those reasons (or interaction of all these problems) have nothing to do with the system itself potentially. The issue of adjustment is why I am publishing this thread and I am going to follow it up with a longer, more inclusive thread. I think maybe lots of owners are wrestling with these same issues on similarly equipped coaches.

Now, I have no disagreement with the argument that the wireless programming SmarTool (IMO) should be included with the coach and included in the price of the coach. Whatever its costs, the cost is irrelevant when one considers the total cost of the coach. Now I guess the argument can be made by someone that we don't get an air compressor although we may need to add air to the tires, and we don't get a 5 year supply of Century Boiler Fluid although we may need to add some boiler fluid as we use the coach. My point is simply, while it sure would be nice to not have to buy that programmer when we buy the coach, I don't think that it is any different than another 100 systems and additions that are on the coach or we have to buy.

The basic point that I have made in the past and will make now and in the future is that there is nothing fundamentally inoperable about the Valor TPMS if it is adjusted appropriately. (Now, I am aware of one fundamental weakness of the system but none of that is being discussed in this, or recent, threads).

Gary

zman62 · 04-01-2021, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

Well, we are not discussing pluses and minuses of the system in this thread. I am simply presenting some information that addresses how the baselines values are programmed into the Valor / Valid system.

I am going to discuss all of this in a bigger thread later, but just because you made the point here Chuck, I am going to offer the opinion that it is not the problem of the system (any aspect of the system) that your coach is adjusted (apparently according to what you are saying) so that it makes sense and works properly only in 85 degree ambient temperatures, but I think that you are making the point, by implication, that it does not work well in higher or maybe even lower ambient temperatures..... Is that it?

Now my assumption is that if that is what happens, then the problem is in how the system is adjusted which can be produced by any number of problems or miscalculations produced by 1.) the factory, 2.) the owner as he/she loads the coach, 3.) the dealer who prepares the coach, or 4.) other reasons also, but all of those reasons (or interaction of all these problems) have nothing to do with the system itself potentially. The issue of adjustment is why I am publishing this thread and I am going to follow it up with a longer, more inclusive thread. I think maybe lots of owners are wrestling with these same issues on similarly equipped coaches.

Now, I have no disagreement with the argument that the wireless programming SmarTool (IMO) should be included with the coach and included in the price of the coach. Whatever its costs, the cost is irrelevant when one considers the total cost of the coach. Now I guess the argument can be made by someone that we don't get an air compressor although we may need to add air to the tires, and we don't get a 5 year supply of Century Boiler Fluid although we may need to add some boiler fluid as we use the coach. My point is simply, while it sure would be nice to not have to buy that programmer when we buy the coach, I don't think that it is any different than another 100 systems and additions that are on the coach or we have to buy.

The basic point that I have made in the past and will make now and in the future is that there is nothing fundamentally inoperable about the Valor TPMS if it is adjusted appropriately. (Now, I am aware of one fundamental weakness of the system but none of that is being discussed in this, or recent, threads).

Gary

I guess my point was I wouldn’t spend a nickel on the factory system. It’s totally unreliable not to mention the complexity of getting the toad to be on the same system.

GrandPaPat · 04-01-2021, 06:15 PM

I bought the programmer for our 2020 Anthem because I added the sensors to our toad. By phone Don walked me through setting the coach and toad parameters over a year ago. I did not have to disconnect anything on the Canbus network to get all the programming done. I think Don told me that or someone at NIRVC Atlanta, I can’t remember now.
The sensors are attached to the inside of the rim with a very long hose clamp. Two of those clamps came lose on the toad because the teenage tire shop worker didn’t give a damn about doing the job right. I could tell something was wrong months later because the toad developed a shake in the seat at 55mph. Both rear sensors were lose and one was beat to death as it repeatedly smashed into the OEM TPMS sensor. I bought another from Don and had it installed just last week. I will get Don to walk me through the programming again this week and verify that the Canbus network on 2020s do not need to be disconnected.

Gary.Jones · 04-01-2021, 06:18 PM

Well, I guess my point is that I don't share that opinion, and my effort is to present what I have found to work with the system installed on our coaches.

Quite a few owners have seemingly found the Valor TPMS system to work just fine. There are a few that don't seem to like it, and I think, more that seem to like it just fine. I personally, don't care. I am just trying to describe the issues of working with the system for those owners who are still in the process of forming their opinion or learning how to use it, and need good information on how to deal with their systems. If I'm saying something factually incorrect, then I am fine with being corrected.

Your experience may well differ, but that doesn't negate my experience. Let the readers form their own opinion based on their own experience, but they need to know how to deal with a complex system.

Edit:
GrandPaPat. Well, not sure, but the reason that NIRVC Atlanta had failed to ever program the Valor system on coaches of about my vintage was that their techs had never disconnected the J1939 canbus and there was too much "traffic" on the bus for the receiver to be programmed. It was not until the canbus was disconnected from the dash that we were able to get the system to program different baselines. Don Rigby instructed the NIRVC tech and me to disconnect the 3 orange wires before trying to transmit the baseline data to the dash. Now, if you read through the Entegra document (link is in my post above) that lays out the steps for programming the Valor dash transceiver, you will see that Entegra says that the 3 orange coax cables should be removed from the connector junction under the faux wood panel in the dash.

Gary

Gary.Jones · 04-03-2021, 06:59 AM

I'll add one more thing that I don't think is common knowledge. The wireless remote programmer is good for a number of things but the things that I have used it for now and find it useful is for 1.) programming the baselines and making adjustment to the baselines set into the system (which once you do it right, is "brain-dead" easy to set or change), and also 2.) to read the voltage of the batteries in the tire pressure sensors, which is pretty neat and all of that stuff can be stored into internal memory on the programmer.

Some will remember that this past November, I needed to have all the pressure sensors in the tires replaced as Spartan determined that the batteries were failing on all of the sensors, and thus the reason that the pressures were not appearing on the dash. What was surprising was that all of the sensors on the coach needed to be replaced while none of the sensors on the toad needed to be replaced. To check the voltages of the sensors, you are supposed to hold the wireless SmarTool programmer near the stem of each tire. You must hold the programmer against or near the rubber, not the aluminum wheels themselves as it will detect the signal from the sensor through the rubber but not through the aluminum. Hold the sensor near the tire at the stem (you may need to move it back and forth a bit to find where it "reads" the sensor and it will scan for the sensor, and then return the sensor serial number and the current voltage of the batteries.

Now, you can easily scan the steer tires and the tag sensors, and the outer drive tires since you can easily get close to the stems/rubber to get the signal. Unless I did something wrong, I would need to crawl under the coach or do a lot of arm stretching to get the scanner near the inner dual stems and tires so I didn't bother. However, all of my sensors showed 3.6 volts DC. Andy, at Spartan, had told me that 3.6 volts is full battery voltage and by a voltage of 2.6 volts is a point where the battery/sensor needs replaced. When I was at Spartan in November 2020, all of my coach sensor batteries were at 2.6 or 2.5 volts. That was 2.5 years from when I took delivery of the coach. Don Rigby and Spartan say that our batteries should last from 5 to 7 years but mine were already "shot/dead". The best guess of everyone is that the batteries used on the first coaches down the assembly line with this new TPMS system were probably two or three years old when they were installed by Spartan during a testing and design phase, and half of their useful life were already gone when I got the coach. So, they replaced all of the sensors. Other owners of early vintage coaches should check their voltages and make sure that they are replaced under warranty. Mine were. I bought my Honda sensors several months after I took delivery of my coach and their voltages are still within the usable range. If you have an early vintage 2019 coach with the Valor System, then it would behoove you to scan for voltages and make sure that you did not get the same as I did while warranty is in force. If you are having trouble with sensors, one explanation is certainly bad/weak batteries. They will be replaced under warranty, but after that you are on your own. Andy also added a third antenna which is located right near the mudflap and is easily seen now.

Gary

Prairie Dog · 04-03-2021, 07:44 AM

Gary,
Do you need to disconnect the wire you spoke about under the cover in cockpit to check those?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

I'll add one more thing that I don't think is common knowledge. The wireless remote programmer is good for a number of things but the things that I have used it for now and find it useful is for 1.) programming the baselines and making adjustment to the baselines set into the system (which once you do it right, is "brain-dead" easy to set or change), and also 2.) to read the voltage of the batteries in the tire pressure sensors, which is pretty neat and all of that stuff can be stored into internal memory on the programmer.

Some will remember that this past November, I needed to have all the pressure sensors in the tires replaced as Spartan determined that the batteries were failing on all of the sensors, and thus the reason that the pressures and temps were not appearing on the dash. What was surprising was that all of the sensors on the coach needed to be replaced while none of the sensors on the toad needed to be replaced. To check the voltages of the sensors, you are supposed to hold the wireless SmarTool programmer near the stem of each tire. You must hold the programmer against or near the rubber, not the aluminum wheels themselves as it will detect the signal from the sensor through the rubber but not through the aluminum. Hold the sensor near the tire at the stem (you may need to move it back and forth a bit to find where it "reads" the sensor and it will scan for the sensor, and then return the sensor serial number and the current voltage of the batteries.

Now, you can easily scan the steer tires and the tag sensors, and the outer drive tires since you can easily get close to the stems/rubber to get the signal. Unless I did something wrong, I would need to crawl under the coach or do a lot of arm stretching to get the scanner near the inner dual stems and tires so I didn't bother. However, all of my sensors showed 3.6 volts DC. Andy, at Spartan, had told me that 3.6 volts is full battery voltage and by a voltage of 2.6 volts is a point where the battery/sensor needs replaced. When I was at Spartan in November 2020, all of my coach sensor batteries were at 2.6 or 2.5 volts. That was 2.5 years from when I took delivery of the coach. Don Rigby and Spartan say that our batteries should last from 5 to 7 years but mine were already "shot/dead". The best guess of everyone is that the batteries used on the first coaches down the assembly line with this new TPMS system were probably two or three years old when they were installed by Spartan during a testing and design phase, and half of their useful life were already gone when I got the coach. So, they replaced all of the sensors. Other owners of early vintage coaches should check their voltages and make sure that they are replaced under warranty. Mine were. I bought my Honda sensors several months after I took delivery of my coach and their voltages are still within the usable range. If you have an early vintage 2019 coach with the Valor System, then it would behoove you to scan for voltages and make sure that you did not get the same as I did while warranty is in force. If you are having trouble with sensors, one explanation is certainly bad/weak batteries. They will be replaced under warranty, but after that you are on your own. Andy also added a third antenna which is located right near the mudflap and is easily seen now.

Gary

Gary.Jones · 04-03-2021, 09:00 AM

To check voltages and read serial numbers, you dont need to disconnect any wiring in the coach. You are simply picking the data from each sensor by the wireless programmer and all of that is done outside by the tires.

The wire disconnecting is only when you are entering your chosen baselines and uploading them into the dashboard.

Gary

Prairie Dog · 04-03-2021, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

To check voltages and read serial numbers, you dont need to disconnect any wiring in the coach. You are simply picking the data from each sensor by the wireless programmer and all of that is done outside by the tires.

The wire disconnecting is only when you are entering your chosen baselines and uploading them into the dashboard.

Gary

Gary,
So you can check pressures without disconnecting wire too? Thanks, very helpful
Bill

Gary.Jones · 04-03-2021, 10:08 AM

Bill

The pressures are displayed on the dash.

The battery voltages of sensors are displayed on the SmarTool

The sensor serial numbers are displayed on the SmarTool

You can program the baselines on the SmarTool not connected to anything (e.g. inside your house if you want to)

You upload the baselines to the coach dashboard "transceiver" wirelessly if you hold the SmarTool close to the dash ( while sitting in the drivers seat for example) after disconnecting the J1939 wires from the connector under the fake wood panel in front of the passengers chair. When the baselines are uploaded successfully, the SmarTool says "uploaded successfully" or similar wording.

Gary