Vegatouch on 2020 Anthem

[Smokingem]

Hi,

Does anybody know what happens if Vegatouch is disconnected from the Inverter? In order to upgrade the original AGM batteries to LFPs, I most likely need to bypass the Vegatouch which, somehow, does not support “CV/CC” battery type though the Magnum MHS does and to install Magnum ME-ARC remote (and, perhaps, MEAGSN auto gen start control as well).

I can experiment to see. But, my MH is at NIRVC. If somebody can tell me, which can save a trip.

Thanks.

Ethan
2020 Entegra Anthem 44W

[Gary.Jones]

Ethan

You are attempting to do something that virtually none of us have attempted to do. On an Entegra, 757Driver was the first that I knew about, but he has a classic (around 2015) so he doesnt deal with the same VegaTouch issues, but he is very knowleedgeable about these issues. There are going to be only 3 or 4 owners who have converted that haunt on here so you are probably just going to have to wait for one of them to show up and tell you their experience.

I've had enough troubles that I have stayed away from considering a change to Lithium...

Gary

[757driver]

Originally Posted by Smokingem

Hi,

Does anybody know what happens if Vegatouch is disconnected from the Inverter? In order to upgrade the original AGM batteries to LFPs, I most likely need to bypass the Vegatouch which, somehow, does not support “CV/CC” battery type though the Magnum MHS does and to install Magnum ME-ARC remote (and, perhaps, MEAGSN auto gen start control as well).

I can experiment to see. But, my MH is at NIRVC. If somebody can tell me, which can save a trip.

Thanks.

Ethan
2020 Entegra Anthem 44W

Ethan,

If you can find someone to unplug even 1 inverter cable from the Magnum bridge it would be helpful to see how Vegatouch would react. If not try it yourself once you get the coach back.

With regards to remotes you do not need the ME-ARC it may be a little overkill for what you want to do. The ME-RC would work just fine.

With regards to the auto gen start check what voltage you can set it up to for battery charging to see if it is compatible with the higher voltages of lithium.

[Smokingem]

Originally Posted by 757driver

Ethan,

If you can find someone to unplug even 1 inverter cable from the Magnum bridge it would be helpful to see how Vegatouch would react. If not try it yourself once you get the coach back.

With regards to remotes you do not need the ME-ARC it may be a little overkill for what you want to do. The ME-RC would work just fine.

With regards to the auto gen start check what voltage you can set it up to for battery charging to see if it is compatible with the higher voltages of lithium.

Don,

Sure, I will report how it goes. Anyways, can’t we as a Entegra community to request Firefly to include Cc/CV battery type in the list? It is basically all it takes to be LFP ready and save a lot of trouble.

Thanks.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by Smokingem

Don,

Sure, I will report how it goes. Anyways, can’t we as a Entegra community to request Firefly to include Cc/CV battery type in the list? It is basically all it takes to be LFP ready and save a lot of trouble.

Thanks.

I am sure Firefly could add whatever parameter is not included from the ME-RC remote but it would not be up to them it would be up to Entegra.

Any attempts I have made to have other parameters added such as final charge of “Float” have fallen on deaf ears. Not even the courtesy of a response so good luck with that endeavour.

[DeWat]

Maybe I'm not understanding the question correctly? I have turned off all power to the coach on several occasions... no shore power, both chassis battery switches off, and both inverter switches off. Wouldn't this be the same as disconnecting the Vegatouch from the inverter since there is no power in the coach at all? (Somewhat unrelated, but I remember in our 2019 Spartan Academy class that PJ said that the batteries should hold up for 6 months in this state). Anyway, maybe I didn't understand the question correctly.


EDIT: After reading it and then just thinking about it, I think I understand now... how would the Vegatouch operate on the different batteries if the inverter was bypassed? Sorry for the slow understanding, and disregard my answer.

[Smokingem]

Originally Posted by Smokingem

Don,

Sure, I will report how it goes. Anyways, can’t we as a Entegra community to request Firefly to include Cc/CV battery type in the list? It is basically all it takes to be LFP ready and save a lot of trouble.

Thanks.

Did the experiment.
Shore AC was on. I disconnected the bridge. VT showed alert says it’s lost communications with beeps which I can silenced for certain time period or forever. VT continued reading AC voltage/current. I could still operate lights, start GEN from VT. Turned off Shore AC. VT now shows it’s on the batteries. Was able to turn TV on. Then I turned off the Inverter on VT. Nothing happened. TV remained ON. I went to the basement and replug the Bridge. Came back inside and turned off the inverter. It went off and shut off TV as well.

So in summary, disconnecting Bridge does nothing but disabling VT to control the inverter. But, VT can still reads AC and batteries and allows me to turn on GEN on its panel.

It seems that I can safely disconnect the Bridge and replace it with ME-ARTR so that I can use higher GEN start voltage and CC/CV battery type for my LFP without causing major issues on the rest of the system. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by Smokingem

Did the experiment.
Shore AC was on. I disconnected the bridge. VT showed alert says it’s lost communications with beeps which I can silenced for certain time period or forever. VT continued reading AC voltage/current. I could still operate lights, start GEN from VT. Turned off Shore AC. VT now shows it’s on the batteries. Was able to turn TV on. Then I turned off the Inverter on VT. Nothing happened. TV remained ON. I went to the basement and replug the Bridge. Came back inside and turned off the inverter. It went off and shut off TV as well.

So in summary, disconnecting Bridge does nothing but disabling VT to control the inverter. But, VT can still reads AC and batteries and allows me to turn on GEN on its panel.

It seems that I can safely disconnect the Bridge and replace it with ME-ARTR so that I can use higher GEN start voltage and CC/CV battery type for my LFP without causing major issues on the rest of the system. Keeping my fingers crossed.

That is great news!!

[DreamCatcherVA]

Originally Posted by 757driver

That is great news!!

From more recent posts it was suggested to install a ME-ARC (2 in my case since I have 2 MSH3012M inverters) replacing the existing bridge and moving the connection from remote port to Network port. All in which the AGS though needed less would no longer work. In seeing this thread it appears a better choice would to remove the bridge and install an ME-ARTR which can control both inverters and AGS? Is that correct? In this scenario do you still change the connection on the inverter from remote port to the network port?

I currently have 4 390AH AGMs. The plan is to upgrade to two LiTime Lifepo4 400AH..installing an LI-BIM as well to protect the alternator.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by Smokingem

....It seems that I can safely disconnect the Bridge and replace it with ME-ARTR so that I can use higher GEN start voltage and CC/CV battery type for my LFP without causing major issues on the rest of the system. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Voltage is a poor way to activate AGS for LI batteries, because LI batteries have a flat voltage curve. Their voltage remains nearly constant until just before they are exhausted, so the AGS has no way of knowing the true battery condition and will not start the generator until the batteries are nearly dead.

The prefered way to gauge the state of charge (SOC) on a Lithium battery bank is to use a shunt, which calculates SOC in real time by measuring the amperage that goes into and out of the battery. It will accurately display SOC as a percetage of full charge, and if used with a compatible AGS system will start the generator based on SOC, not voltage. These shunt systems are made by the major inverter manufacturers, are relatively inexpensive, and add a lot of utility.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by JUlrick

From more recent posts it was suggested to install a ME-ARC (2 in my case since I have 2 MSH3012M inverters) replacing the existing bridge and moving the connection from remote port to Network port. All in which the AGS though needed less would no longer work. In seeing this thread it appears a better choice would to remove the bridge and install an ME-ARTR which can control both inverters and AGS? Is that correct? In this scenario do you still change the connection on the inverter from remote port to the network port?

I currently have 4 390AH AGMs. The plan is to upgrade to two LiTime Lifepo4 400AH..installing an LI-BIM as well to protect the alternator.

I hope you will post the outcome and where you mounted the ME-ARTR
Thanks
JMO, but like Marc said, if I could easily install Lithiums, I don't think I would worry about my AGS knowing the Lithiums would be more than enough for an overnight stop, where the L16's barely come close. Monitoring a shunt would work for me to have Lithiums.

[DreamCatcherVA]

Originally Posted by brobox

I hope you will post the outcome and where you mounted the ME-ARTR
Thanks
JMO, but like Marc said, if I could easily install Lithiums, I don't think I would worry about my AGS knowing the Lithiums would be more than enough for an overnight stop, where the L16's barely come close. Monitoring a shunt would work for me to have Lithiums.

I'll likely start that way initially until AGS becomes needed for longer terms. I will likely install the ME-ARTR in the same location as the bridge in the basement. Once set, it's rarely used, plus monitoring the shunt would alert me to any issues that may indicate I need to look at the remote. Trying to wire the ARTR in the living quarters may prove to be more of an effort than its worth. I would need to likely install it in the half bath (on the opposite side of the coach) given that basement area is below the passenger side's super slide, so its wall can't be used to mount the remote.

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by Smokingem

Did the experiment.
Shore AC was on. I disconnected the bridge. VT showed alert says it’s lost communications with beeps which I can silenced for certain time period or forever. VT continued reading AC voltage/current. I could still operate lights, start GEN from VT. Turned off Shore AC. VT now shows it’s on the batteries. Was able to turn TV on. Then I turned off the Inverter on VT. Nothing happened. TV remained ON. I went to the basement and replug the Bridge. Came back inside and turned off the inverter. It went off and shut off TV as well.

So in summary, disconnecting Bridge does nothing but disabling VT to control the inverter. But, VT can still reads AC and batteries and allows me to turn on GEN on its panel.

It seems that I can safely disconnect the Bridge and replace it with ME-ARTR so that I can use higher GEN start voltage and CC/CV battery type for my LFP without causing major issues on the rest of the system. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Good info, pretty much as expected. There have been others that have done this I believe, there are some long complex threads on here somewhere.

The AC info is coming from the transfer switch.

With the ME-RVC bridge disconnected, it will no longer be sending stats on certain pieces of info to the Vegatouch. Things like charger status, inverter status, battery voltage, current, temp, etc. I bought one of those to use on my non-Vegatouch coach and did an analysis of what RV-C data it reports here. You can look thru that and get a rough idea. I also have a Magnum document that describes the ME-RVC behavior in detail.

Also, with the ME-RVC disconnected, the Vegatouch will no longer be passing settings to it. As I recall, the Magnums must have a remote connected or they default to basic charger settings. The ME-RVC is considered a remote if none other are present. If you unplug the ME-RVC, the Magnum settings are not retained and allegedly go to default. So you do need to at least put an ME-RC or ARC or ARTR on there if you want to be able to change and hold the settings.

One thing you could try is to plug the ME-RVC into the NETWORK port on the Magnum, instead of the REMOTE port. This will free up the REMOTE port for your dedicated ME-RC/ARC/ARTR. Plus it is possible the ME-RVC will still send status info that will show on the Vegatouch screen. But you won't be able to make any setting changes via the Vegatouch. Someone told me once that worked for them with Vegatouch but there are so many revision levels of ME-RVC, Inverters, etc. so I can't say.

However, I do have that exact setup on my non-Vegatouch coach. I do have an ME-BMK also, so get SOC reported to the RV-C which I can use to trigger a gen start via my own software (eRVin.com). The only issue I have is the ME-RVC goes to sleep after a while and I need to keep rebooting it which I can do over the RV-C.

One caveat, there are revisions of the ME-RVC that do not report SOC. I believe this was fixed in ME-RVC 1.5.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by JUlrick

I'll likely start that way initially until AGS becomes needed for longer terms. I will likely install the ME-ARTR in the same location as the bridge in the basement. Once set, it's rarely used, plus monitoring the shunt would alert me to any issues that may indicate I need to look at the remote. Trying to wire the ARTR in the living quarters may prove to be more of an effort than its worth. I would need to likely install it in the half bath (on the opposite side of the coach) given that basement area is below the passenger side's super slide, so its wall can't be used to mount the remote.

I was thinking the same location. Once I set mine on the 14, it was rarely touched again. No reason going through the hassle of mounting it upstairs. Looking forward to hearing how your installation and charging goes, we both have the same double inverter setup.

I have my doubts with the new batteries being under charged for the past year, that they will have a long future.