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Old 02-15-2018, 12:58 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
If you combine, you have no Sani-Con on the gray tank
Gary,

Please clarify.
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:22 PM   #16
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Matt, I wonder how difficult it would be to re-plumb one of your two toilets to dump into the grey tank?

If you could do that, you could choose which toilet to use based on which tank had the most remaining capacity at any given time. Since both toilets have macerators, it shouldn’t really matter if one of them drains into the grey tank.

Just a thought…
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:31 PM   #17
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Bill, I interpreted what Gary wrote to mean he was talking about the Black tank flush. I interpreted what he wrote to imply the lack of being able to wash down the gray tank.

Larry, my reluctance to replumb or combine waste tanks is my inherent desire to move slowly on things I don’t fully understand. Particularly when I feel there may be important pieces that need to be accounted for.

In theory, I have no issue with the way things work. My objection is with the minute amount of storage space.

One concept I have debated, is to swap the black and gray inputs. In other words, replumb the gray to use the smaller tank, and the black to use the larger tank.

An earlier concept was to remove the tanks entirely and replace them with a single unified tank. I’d probably dispose of the macerator system in the wet bay at the same time.

Unfortunately, this is all on hold while work is calling.

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Old 02-15-2018, 06:01 PM   #18
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My comment is based on my understanding of my 2015 Anthem. The black tank has a tank flush system built into it. The gray tank has no flush system and therefore cannot be flushed with high pressure city water whereas you black tank can be flushed with high pressure water to remove toilet paper and solid waste. If you combine tanks and let black combine with gray, my assumption is that water/ matter can move either direction so black can also move to gray. If that assumption is wrong, then help me understand how it works.

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Old 02-15-2018, 07:08 PM   #19
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You aren’t wrong Gary, regardless of what the flush thingamajob is called.

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Old 02-16-2018, 07:22 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
My comment is based on my understanding of my 2015 Anthem. The black tank has a tank flush system built into it. The gray tank has no flush system and therefore cannot be flushed with high pressure city water whereas you black tank can be flushed with high pressure water to remove toilet paper and solid waste. If you combine tanks and let black combine with gray, my assumption is that water/ matter can move either direction so black can also move to gray. If that assumption is wrong, then help me understand how it works.

Gary
I agree, Gary. I have no interest in combining my tanks and, to avoid the same potential problems, I don't open my gray tank while the black is open. I know some number of owners think this is a good way to "back wash" the black tank, but it's likely to cause more problems than it solves.

I do have an engineer's curiosity in how the black flush actually works, especially how the nozzle is designed. It's easy to picture high pressure water scouring the sides of the black tank, but that would require either a rotating nozzle or multiple aimed nozzles. To reach all sides of the tank with one fixed nozzle the spray pattern has to be more like that from a fire sprinkler head, with little pressure hitting any particular part of the tank. The broader the water pattern the lower the pressure, even though the flow rate stays high. I do believe, though, that however it's designed it's sufficient to keep the black tank clean if used regularly.

I've added this topic to the list of things I want to look into at Homecoming in May, just for my own edification.
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:00 AM   #21
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Bill

I agree with your analysis. I have never seen a detailed view of the black tank system in our coaches. I know something is there, but I don’t know exactly how it works. Has anyone?

My imagination is that there are multiple jets with concentrated streams of water which aim from several directions simultaneously, maybe turning jets, but that is my imagination.

What is not my imagination is that I see lots of nasty stuff come out of my black tank AFTER I drain it with gravity and AFTER I have started flushing the tank. Brobox posted that he flushed for ~ an hour after dumping. I flush for 30 - 45 minutes every other flush. So, I will never mix my gray and black tanks unless they have flushing systems in both tanks. Gray can be as nasty smelling as black, but it is for different reasons. There is no logic for “backwashing” in my opinion.... that only stands to double your problems.

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Old 02-16-2018, 08:20 AM   #22
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My gray tank has one and a half inch drain piping and valve. I do not think that I would want any tp or other solids sitting in the tank. It would be hard to prevent a clog and could be hard to dump.
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:37 AM   #23
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I have combined grey/black on trailers since the 1980s
All grey have 1 1/2" drain lines............yet in all those years have never had a clog/blockage etc.
Nor have had any issues with 'gunk build up' in any waste tanks.

Drain them when FULL and let the volume/weight of liquids carry any solids down& out........WHOOSH

TP does NOT last very long when wet
Poop doesn't stay solid for very long unless allowed to dry out/acuumulate then it can become like concrete

Everyone thinks the flush system is the greatest RV invention......yet grey tanks rare have one
BUT grey can have grease/oils, food, body oils, sloughed skin.........things that are NASTIER and easily build up then poop/TP

Flush Systems can be installed on grey tank

Flush Systems are just a 'water fed nozzle. which is nothing more then a piece of pipe with holes drilled in it









Waste is Waste...........
Mixing does NOT cause problems/issues.
Dump when FULL
Add few gallons back into ALL waste tanks after dumping so that anything left behind stays wet
Repeat.......
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Old 02-16-2018, 10:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
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If you combine, you have no Sani-Con on the gray tank, and if you let them all mix together, you are going to get toilet paper and other solids in the gray tank and you have no means to effectively get the gray tank cleaned other than the old "pour in some Pine Sol and Dawn and let the road bumps clean the tank" process which I don't think is a very good strategy. Keep your gray and black tanks separate. JMHO

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I installed a tank flusher to our gray tank(I don’t combine the tanks though) it is an easy install.
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Old 02-16-2018, 11:16 AM   #25
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Click image for larger version

Name:	Screenshot_20180216-111415.png
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ID:	192554on the back of the toilet their is a switch you can flip when boondocking to conserve water
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:52 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
Bill

I agree with your analysis. I have never seen a detailed view of the black tank system in our coaches. I know something is there, but I don’t know exactly how it works. Has anyone?

My imagination is that there are multiple jets with concentrated streams of water which aim from several directions simultaneously, maybe turning jets, but that is my imagination.

What is not my imagination is that I see lots of nasty stuff come out of my black tank AFTER I drain it with gravity and AFTER I have started flushing the tank. Brobox posted that he flushed for ~ an hour after dumping. I flush for 30 - 45 minutes every other flush. So, I will never mix my gray and black tanks unless they have flushing systems in both tanks. Gray can be as nasty smelling as black, but it is for different reasons. There is no logic for “backwashing” in my opinion.... that only stands to double your problems.

Gary
Gary - I respectfully disagree, at least relative to my coach.

I use a clear 45 at the discharge of the tanks on our conventionally plumbed '15 and can easily observe what's coming out. While dumping a full black tank I run the tank sprayer using a direct hose with no pressure regulator (btw, I'm pretty sure it's just a single fixed nozzle with multiple drilled holes) and after 5-min or so the drainage is essentially clear and no more solids come out even if I continue it for 30-45 min. While the sprayer is still running I open the grey valve with that tank full (black valve still open) and drop it down to ~50% before re-closing the grey valve. No black tank material gets into the grey and immediately after closing the grey valve a very surprising amount of solids come out of the black tank. I continue to run the sprayer for another 5-min or so, then turn it off, close the black, and finish dumping the grey. I've used this procedure full-time for the last couple of years and that residual that the grey water back-flush collects is the same every time.

Odors have not been an issue - I now use Micro-Blaze in the black (previously used Happy Camper with good results also), and clean the grey occasionally while traveling with the PineSol and Calgon treatment.

I'm going to improve this procedure a little by adding a third gate valve at the discharge of the clear 45 and use that to force even more of the grey into the black. (I have the Valterra valve/45/flush thingy mentioned earlier in this thread on order - will use that if it will fit in the compartment, otherwise will just put a gate valve on the end of my current 45.)

YMMV...
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:32 PM   #27
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I have handled mine much the same as RBR except I close the tank and let it fill over 40% for a final rinse and I do not use any treatment for orders except the occasional pine sol, Dawn, Calvin voctail when moving. Orders have not been a problem.
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Old 02-16-2018, 05:39 PM   #28
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Say what you want, the owner of Camco advised the solution to a plugged black water tank was to use Dawn (a degreaser) and to use more water during usage. I can attest to my black water tank being squeaky clean after using the dawn to clean my tank. I’ve only had to do it the once and haven’t had a problem since.
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