We are ALL Entegra Classic owners now

[PushedAround]

Originally Posted by oldenavy

The Millennials and X-ers might be more interested in RV travel and/or larger RVs as they age.

True, but we will probably not be around to have that potential shift affect us. My kids are campers, but in tents and hammocks. I'll probably be long gone before any of them are in a position to get a class A, if they would even want one.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by brobox

Personally, I think this will finish Spartan.

Perhaps Thor had this move to Tiffin in mind when they started building Entegras on Freightliner chassis at the start of the 2025 model year.

[Where-2]

Originally Posted by brobox

Personally, I think this will finish Spartan.

That wouldn't be good news for fans of the Mountain Aire, King Aire, or Foretravel. We will have to see if a Spartan chassis or two with or without hung walls lives on under the Tiffin brand. Supposedly they have capacity for around 2,000 coaches annually in Red Bay and are only making about 700 now.

[JohnArch]

As far as Spartan v. Freightliner discussion, I heard a RUMOR that Spartan will have proprietary rights on Tiffin and Entegra. All other (excluding the extreme high end who make their own chassis) will be freightliner. Just a rumor!

[Ricci]

Hi - Just shooting from the hip but I suspect that the Entegra would go on the Freightliner built Powerglide chassis.



Tom

[Cruzer]

I can understand the reason for the change. Any manufacturer who has a product that's in a shrinking market needs to make some go, no-go decisions. Unfortunately the existing owner base isn't going to like the changes. Entegra is a great coach but what made it wasn't the same-as technology used in other brands. The hung sidewall construction, x-braced chassis, Spartan chassis and numerous other features that were inherited from Travel Supreme are what made the coach what it is.

I've had two Tiffin Allegro Buses prior to our Cornerstone and they were light years apart in quality and performance. Not only are the factory facilities on opposite ends of the spectrum but the employees are different. The Red Bay employees don't have the same esprit d' cor that the Entegra employees do. The laid back southern tack doesn't lend well to building a quality product. A lot of stuff went through that shouldn't have been because they just don't care. When our Cornerstone was built I had the unique advantage of spending 3 weeks on the factory floor and got to know many of the people working on my coach and the others. To a person they were proud of what they were building and had more initiative than the Tiffin workers. I just don't see the present level of quality as happening when the coaches are built in Red Bay. That would be too much of a culture change.

And that's assuming that these coaches are going to be built down there as they are now. Tiffin is a vaculam facility. It would require a major redesign to go to a hung sidewall construction method. I'd bet money that this will be the end of the hung sidewall coaches, leaving Newmar as the only other player in that market. This is a cost saving measure by Thor to adapt to a shrinking market so I expect that you'll see something on the line with a rebadged Allegro Bus with the Entegra style front and rear caps. Unfortunately, that's not what sold buyers on the Entegra line so these changes will probably mark an even greater turndown in Entegra sales going forward.

Everything changes over time, which is why we aren't all driving horse-drawn wagons with wooden wheels. But I think that the golden era of Entegra Coaches is over.

[brobox]

Nice Post Mark. That takes to the title of the post, "we are all Classic owners now"

[jerhofer]

Originally Posted by oldenavy

Interesting discussion about different generations and how that may affect the RV market. One thing to keep in mind is that people’s desires/opinions can change as they age.

I distinctly recall discussing with DW during our first cross country trip (our first PCS military move) in our 20’s our thoughts something to the effect, “why would anyone want to travel in an RV? They are big, use a lot of gas and are expensive. It would be much cheaper to pay for hotels than pay for an RV.” Now that we are much older, we prefer travel by RV over a car road trip. It’s still a more expensive way to travel, but our priorities have changed and our comfort is more important now. We are the last of the boomer generation.

The Millennials and X-ers might be more interested in RV travel and/or larger RVs as they age.

This is our situation exactly. We had the same thoughts until 2014 when we got a new puppy. We had been retired for six years but still wanted to travel. Now we wanted to take the dog along. Thanks to our motorhome experiences, we have now been to all 48 lower states and Canada. We have a well traveled dog who has been to the top of Pikes Peak and has had wet paws in both oceans. She has turned out to be a very expensive dog!!

Initially we bought an Airstream Interstate Mercedes Sprinter class B. As we began taking longer trips, the class B was just too small. We moved up to a 32' Tiffin Breeze class A diesel. Much better but when my wife found out that you could have a washer/dryer in a motorhome, the die was cast for getting a larger coach. We moved up to a Tiffin Red 36" class A.

We traveled once during Covid and did not enjoy it out of concern for going to attractions and being around people. So we sold the Red while the selling was good. As things died down, we moved up to a 39' Tiffin Phaeton which we still have..and love.

We bought all of these coaches used so we did not go through the trials and tribulations of initial ownership. As you can see, we have been loyal to Tiffin. While we have liked the layouts, our most important reason was for the service. It is easy to get parts from Tiffin. When I have had an issue arise, I have always been able to talk to someone in service and receive good advice. They have also fixed some things on our coaches even though they were out of warranty and we were not the original owners. Hopefully, that part of the ownership experience passes on to Entegra owners.

I have not noticed any change in Tiffin's service since being bought by Thor.

As for the Red Bay experience, it will not be like going to Middlebury. We lived in Middlebury for 20 years so we know the area well. There isn't a lot to do in Red Bay especially compared to the Essenhaus and Shipshewana. The upside is that, while it is cold in Red Bay in the winter, it is not as cold as in Middlebury. And way less likely to have snow. We live in North Carolina and have similar weather to Red Bay. I much prefer our weather over Middlebury weather, which is why we now live in NC.

Hopefully, everything works out well for Entegra.

[Lault]

Originally Posted by brobox

Personally, I think this will finish Spartan.

I agree Spartian will be another casualty of this merger or closure of Entegra. Entegra will die after all this. The very old facility's in Red Bay can not support this addition, if you have ever been to Red Bay you know this.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by Lault

I agree Spartian will be another casualty of this merger or closure of Entegra. Entegra will die after all this. The very old facility's in Red Bay can not support this addition, if you have ever been to Red Bay you know this.

There are still a lot of unknowns, but after reading posts of those in the know about the Tiffin location, and not getting an answer back on the hung wall construction, I have reach out again. Cruzer's post made a lot of sense. If that is the case, our current Entegras, much like a Travel Supreme, are really going to hold their value. Outside of Newmar there will not be another coach that is road noise quite as the current Entegras.
I have been in the new Entegra Plant that Tadd Jenkins built just for Entegras, I was there for the grand opening, it is top of the line. Too bad it will now become Top of the Line for other Thor owned models that are more profitable.

[brobox]

Cruzer was correct, hung wall construction will not be leaving Middlebury. I received the text I had been waiting for and that was confirmed
My 21 just increased in value

[Cruzer]

Originally Posted by Lault

I agree Spartian will be another casualty of this merger or closure of Entegra. Entegra will die after all this. The very old facility's in Red Bay can not support this addition, if you have ever been to Red Bay you know this.

That's quite possible. One of our Allegro Busses, the 2007 42QRP, was on a Spartan chassis and it was a big step up from the Freightliner under our 2004 40DP. One of the main reasons for our upgrade. At the time Bob Tiffin offered the Spartan at an upcharge due to the many issues customers were having with Freightliner - especially overheating due to an inadequate cooling system for the 400 ISL. The Spartan was a major price hike so Bob told me he split the difference and raised the Freightliner chassis pricing and lowered the Spartan pricing to narrow the gap, allowing the Freightliner sales to help subsidize the Spartan sales.

So it would be possible to have Spartan alongside of Freightliner on the Red Bay line. But, Tiffin's Spartan offering starting back in 2006 was a temporary measure until they got their own Powerglide chassis up and running, which ended the Spartan option. So while it is possible to have Spartan come down to the rebadged Tiffin top lines I doubt if it would make good financial sense.

[Cruzer]

One other thing to consider:

I know that Thor gets a bad rap from a lot of RV owners. Much of this is from the low quality Thor coaches that gave a bad taste to many owners. But it is important to remember that Thor Motorcoach is a division of Thor Industries. I recall talking to them when doing a magazine review of one of their coaches and my contact lamented that they weren't gaining any benefit from the Jayco merger because they were all separate companies who were owned by Thor Industries. I was in Derald Bontrager's office shortly after the merger and he told me that Thor pretty much left hands off, which makes sense because Thor was buying companies that were profitable and improving them. They weren't looking to acquire problem companies and try to correct things. Derald mentioned that Bob Martin would call him up every month or so and ask how things were going and if Derald needed anything.

I know that there have been changes at Tiffin and Jayco since the merger but I don't necessarily lay that at Thor's feet. These changes were made by local management and would undoubtedly have occurred regardless.

One possibility, and I have to add the disclaimer that this is only my theory and I have no inside knowledge of whether this is true or not, is that the luxury coach market's downturn, and inevitable future meant that Jayco management decided this was not going to be a profitable venture. It would be a tough call to discontinue the Entegra line and maybe Bob Martin offered an option to move it to Tiffin? Just a possibility, anyway.

[MRUSA14]

If they are not moving hung wall construction to Red Bay, then they will not be building Entegras, they will be building Tiffins with an Entegra veneer. Very sad to see the demise of the great Entegra brand. I can’t stop wondering what will happen to all the loyal and talented people at Entegra.