Community Forums

DSL417 · 06-08-2014, 11:25 AM

Marc, I agreed with you about the wiring chart, and wires that end with no apparent connect make you wonder, but they are present in coaches, houses, cars and other electronics. In many cases, they are a wiring run for an attachment or and option, or for a future mod. I recognize it is frustrating, but I think that "appalling" is a little strong. JMHO. After all, it is an extra wiring pair that will allow you to add LED lights to your Girards without running new wire. Same with the TV cable runs. Sometimes when they buy the wiring harness they put in, they buy one for all three coach lines to save money, but obviously, the Aspire doesn't have what the Cornerstone has.

zman62 · 06-08-2014, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417

I guess I find this thread very interesting. Have you ever looked in the AC ducting, between the studs (sawdust and pieces of wire), or under the carpet (same) of your new home as they were building it. How about the perfectly rectangular holes in the wall board for the light switches and the ceiling fixtures. And that's on the $150k and the $1M homes alike.

I mean...come on...go look at the Mountain Aire. Heck, go look at a Prevost. Does it materially prevent keeping you coach on the road. Do the wires hang in a way that creates a problem? Just saying'... A coach wiring diagram would be a plus...but beyond that, well:(

That is the problem. I am a contractor/builder. We do first time home buyer stuff as well as multimillion dollar homes. You would never find this stuff on any of our products. I know you would not find it on any of my competitors products either.

You will find it on a cookie cutter production home which is where entegra falls. However in my last coach( monaco camelot) it did not see things like this.

zman62 · 06-08-2014, 11:32 AM

I have chased down many wiring issues over the years. Its always created from poor wiring practices. Will it prevent the coach from going down the road? It could depending on the wiring issue. Tight clean wiring is long lasting wiring.

MRUSA14 · 06-08-2014, 11:40 AM

If the wires were marked and there was a suitable wiring diagram, I could accept having loose wires. The way they are, loose and unmarked, I stick with my description of appalling and I will add the word unprofessional. My 2003 Beaver had no loose wires and a comprehensive wiring diagram. Every wire in the coach was marked every so many inches along its entire length with what circuit it was for. It made troubleshooting or modifications easy to do.

Why should Entegra be so far below the competition in this regard?

hogdriver · 06-08-2014, 12:17 PM

I'll pile on also. My 02 Monaco had neatly bundled wires. Each wire had a ink printed labeling on the wire. The RV came with about 20 pages of wiring diagrams.

My beautiful Entegra has odd loops of wire. Very few wires are labeled. They furnished no diagrams. There is lots of black tape over wiring nuts instead of using automotive crimp connectors or terminal blocks. I think of all the things Entegra does right and yet the wiring needs to be improved!

DSL417 · 06-08-2014, 12:21 PM

So Beaver had wiring diagrams and labeled wires 15 years ago...I don't know, does Newmar, American, Prevost, Foretravel, etc. I don't know what the industry standard is anymore...right or wrong. I do know that wiring diagrams and labeled wiring would add significant cost...but that's based upon my government work, and we all know how the government gets screwed on pricing.

I'm not disagreeing on this...I just don't know what the standard is and what the cost would be...I think I'd rather see the dollars spent in improved quality assurance across the industry, but that's JMHO.

MRUSA14 · 06-08-2014, 12:35 PM

These things don't seem important when everything is working, but wait until something goes wrong and you have to troubleshoot it.

DSL417 · 06-08-2014, 12:45 PM

Well, I faced electrical problems in a bad way last year for four months after I got my coach. The way the wiring is bundled, everyone, and I mean everyone at Entegra and Spartan, was dreading having to run wires...and I'm talking about the guys who install them. So I guess, for me, working electrical wiring issues would be the last thing I'm ready to tackle, but that is me. I do a lot of stuff on my coach, but generally, that's a step too far for me. I'll tackle fuses, breakers, plugs, loose connectors, inverters...the obvious...but at some point I reach the "do more harm than good" and I need the tech to guide me. Worked OK thus far.

palehorse89 · 06-08-2014, 12:57 PM

14 years ago, Newmar "labeled all the wiring" in their Coach's, every wire in my Coach has writing on it.......Nice and neat.......14 years later. I am not sure about the new ones. There is no excuse for not doing a neat and nice job, just cause one can't see it.............Boils down to "Pride in your work"........or........not.

JEEPOHOLIC · 06-08-2014, 01:33 PM

its called $$$$, or profit, CEO bonus checks, what ever you want to call it, it comes down to making the most money off of you, paying your employees the least amount money you can get away with, your talking about out of the box wiring harness that fits as many makes, models, and lengths of units your producing this year, I speak from experience, I am an industrial electrician that has worked on many power house jobs, where ever wire is labeled at each end, laid down in cable trays like it was drawn in, with no wires crossing over each other, but level of neatness takes time, experience, and money payed to happy employees, when I'm not working on power houses, I will sometimes take work in high rise building, now if you want to see scary work push a few ceiling tiles, it looks like constantine wire up there, another get it as fast as possible and charge as much money as possible, pay your employees as little as possible, to make the most profit as possible

MRUSA14 · 06-08-2014, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417

Well, I faced electrical problems in a bad way last year for four months after I got my coach. The way the wiring is bundled, everyone, and I mean everyone at Entegra and Spartan, was dreading having to run wires...and I'm talking about the guys who install them. So I guess, for me, working electrical wiring issues would be the last thing I'm ready to tackle, but that is me. I do a lot of stuff on my coach, but generally, that's a step too far for me. I'll tackle fuses, breakers, plugs, loose connectors, inverters...the obvious...but at some point I reach the "do more harm than good" and I need the tech to guide me. Worked OK thus far.

Dave, the tech too will be handicapped by these bad practices. It will take him longer (perhaps much longer) to find and correct your problem, and after the warranty is over, guess who gets to pay for that?

zman62 · 06-08-2014, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417

So Beaver had wiring diagrams and labeled wires 15 years ago...I don't know, does Newmar, American, Prevost, Foretravel, etc. I don't know what the industry standard is anymore...right or wrong. I do know that wiring diagrams and labeled wiring would add significant cost...but that's based upon my government work, and we all know how the government gets screwed on pricing.

I'm not disagreeing on this...I just don't know what the standard is and what the cost would be...I think I'd rather see the dollars spent in improved quality assurance across the industry, but that's JMHO.

This why I would like to take a peak behind panels on a mountain aire. If its the same than I guess its industry standard. If its nice, tight and labeled than entegra needs to evolve at least in the wiring area. I do all my own work so it concerns me about a potential future problem. Someone posted earlier that all this is no big deal if all is working which is so true. However trying to find a intermittent ground or shorting problem will be a nightmare.

brobox · 06-08-2014, 01:48 PM

I'll add my recent personal experience. When I picked my coach up from Entegra a couple of weeks ago there was a wire with a sensor hanging 6 inches below the front cowel below the D/S headlights. I asked Ted Cook what that was and he said it was a temperature sensor. I asked where it went and his reply was "where ever they wanted to put it".....really? It was stuck on the cowel with spray foam that had broken loose. Without a wiring diagram, I have no idea what the sensor is for, but I will locate it a heck of a lot more secure than what it was.

Wineman · 06-08-2014, 03:10 PM

I'll add my recent experience while driving north to the Boston area 2 weeks ago from Bonita Springs FL. We developed a very weird sound coming from generator area when doing over 50 MPH. Sounded like something flapping in the wind very fast. I pulled over and looked in generator bay and I saw a bunch of wire harnesses that seemed very loose so I started tucking them into any area I could and sure enough the nose went away. I'll have to use wire ties to make sure it does not come back again but they need some looseness in order for generator to slide out, but not as much as I had!!