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Old 06-08-2014, 06:52 PM   #29
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COMPLETE wiring diagrams for the Entegra or any upper mid level coach would run to several hundred pages and not easily understood. A simplified general diagram, not detailed engineering drawings are supplied with some coaches and are an aid to a minority of owners. Most, however, will just take it to an expert to get it fixed. I suspect the added cost to the coach would be considerable and Entegra has determined that at this time the expense is not a wise investment. All JMHO of course and I know a minority of the responders to this thread . Just another owners view.
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:03 PM   #30
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Right or wrong, good or bad, but when Jayco bought the assets of Travel Supreme, it was done so without the benefit of any prints. Not something Jayco would want to advertise back then but the early coaches we're put together by ex Travel Supreme people because they just knew how they went together. Without them, there would probably not be any Entegras. Up until this year, I don't think any of the models even had pre-made wiring harnesses. This is part of the price you pay for buying an Entegra which has been in business for what 5 years? I recently got a copy of the radio prints for my coach, which is a 2014 and the only set of prints available are newer than the manufacturing date of my coach. Check back in another 5 years and I bet it is a very different story. They now have prints of most everything and with their new found volume, they are beginning to use factory termination on electrical components. When I purchased my first Anthem in 2011, Entegras were manufactured at a blistering pace of about 2 a week! How much supplier customization does that buy you?
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:20 PM   #31
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Great point! Entegra story, it's just keeps getting better and better, now for some more detail fixes and of course, the elusive perfect floor plan!
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:22 PM   #32
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I am sure there are drawings that are used in the engineering dept and then on the assembly line. Surely they are not just winging the wiring on the assembly line. When I bought my monaco I received a nice set of drawings that I put to good use.

I dont build coaches for a living but most anyones eye can look at the dangling mess in the gen compartment and know that is not right. The rest of the coach is beautiful the wiring just needs attention. I will be curious to look at the wiring in the competitors product
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Old 06-08-2014, 07:37 PM   #33
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My point is in this day and age electronic publishing is cheap. Jayco has been making drawings for some time to update the Travel Supreme days. I was pointing out that my previous two non-Entegras were RVs of a lower quality and price point and had neater, better labeled wiring with diagrams. Some of the forum readers are experiencing their first RV or Class A in an Entegra and I think that what Entegra does with wiring is neither leading edge or industry best practice.

As some of the other 20+ year RV-ers have said, wait 5-10 years and when something needs fixing and try to figure out that wiring without labels or diagrams.
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Old 06-08-2014, 08:32 PM   #34
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Most, however, will just take it to an expert to get it fixed.
And that expert won't even have clue where to start. The repair will take much too long to do and cost much too much because of no labels and/or prints.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:38 PM   #35
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Quote:
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I am sure there are drawings that are used in the engineering dept and then on the assembly line. Surely they are not just winging the wiring on the assembly line. When I bought my monaco I received a nice set of drawings that I put to good use.

I dont build coaches for a living but most anyones eye can look at the dangling mess in the gen compartment and know that is not right. The rest of the coach is beautiful the wiring just needs attention. I will be curious to look at the wiring in the competitors product
I'm a neat freak like you zman so the mess behind the panels really bothers me. My Newmar coach is no different than what you Entegra owners are experiencing. I love my coach but lack of labels on wires and the lack of attention to doing at least a half way decent job of organizing wire runs and securing them properly is very frustrating. I try to do as much of my own work as I can and I have done a lot of upgrades on my coach so I have been into a lot of places many people never see on their coach.

I upgraded my tank monitoring a couple of weeks ago, installed a Garnet SeeLevel 714 system (which works very well BTW), here are a few photos of what's behind the panels.

Here's what I found when I pulled the access panel:


That board holding the fresh water tank from sliding had one screw which was just barely penetrating the floor board.








... and with little effort I got things secured a bit more neatly, the way I figure it should have arrived from the manufacturer.




So, now you've seen the competitor's product. My guess is they all look the same. Like I said, I find it frustrating because this is what I find wherever I pull open a panel but at the end of the day, I'll buy another Newmar product. Maybe I'll camp out at the factory and watch over them on my next order.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:15 PM   #36
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All brands have areas that could be improved. If manufacturers don't listen to feedback they will be like buggy makers in the 1900s and left behind. An example I saw of a really nice wired coach was Alpines made by Western RV. The had neat wiring bundles all labeled, made the guys who made wiring bundles for Boeing. It wouldn't take much effort to fix this problem and would demonstrate pride in their product line! It just seems odd to me a great company like Entegra can make such nice interiors, and have such a nice riding coach seems to have such disorganized wiring with manuals and diagrams lacking photos and diagrams. Compare other brands. Even Winnebago has better diagrams and manuals.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:29 PM   #37
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I'm a neat freak like you zman so the mess behind the panels really bothers me. My Newmar coach is no different than what you Entegra owners are experiencing. I love my coach but lack of labels on wires and the lack of attention to doing at least a half way decent job of organizing wire runs and securing them properly is very frustrating. I try to do as much of my own work as I can and I have done a lot of upgrades on my coach so I have been into a lot of places many people never see on their coach.

I upgraded my tank monitoring a couple of weeks ago, installed a Garnet SeeLevel 714 system (which works very well BTW), here are a few photos of what's behind the panels.

Here's what I found when I pulled the access panel:


That board holding the fresh water tank from sliding had one screw which was just barely penetrating the floor board.








... and with little effort I got things secured a bit more neatly, the way I figure it should have arrived from the manufacturer.




So, now you've seen the competitor's product. My guess is they all look the same. Like I said, I find it frustrating because this is what I find wherever I pull open a panel but at the end of the day, I'll buy another Newmar product. Maybe I'll camp out at the factory and watch over them on my next order.
Well this answers my question. Its not entegra but the industry. I wonder if the king aire or the cornerstone look any better. Again, I love our coach I just hope I dont have to chase any electrical gremlens. Thanks for posting those pictures they were very helpful.
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:50 PM   #38
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If you see a loose, hanging, unmarked wire with a connector on the end of it, how can you tell if it came loose from its intended connection, or is supposed to be disconnected? I find this practice appalling, if not for the lack of neatness, for the monkey wrench that it will throw into any future trobleshooting attempts. The former is exceedingly bad form and the latter is a real, practical detriment to long-term coach reliability.
Note to self, scratch the Jayco cornerstone off your list of future motorhomes. What I've read and seen in pics made me sick. That just pretty well narrows it down to Newmar. My lowly Baystar is very well put to gather and wired, even behind the dash. What a shame on Jayco and there down line Entegra brands.
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:51 PM   #39
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Congratulations...all...an industry problem now becomes a reason to to buy Entegra. A whine becomes a major issue. I hate to be a jack...,but I got better things to work than sawdust behind a panel and wiring that I'm not going to trace!
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:54 PM   #40
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Note to self, scratch the Jayco cornerstone off your list of future motorhomes. What I've read and seen in pics made me sick. That just pretty well narrows it down to Newmar. My lowly Baystar is very well put to gather and wired, even behind the dash. What a shame on Jayco and there down line Entegra brands.
The photos are of a newmar not an entegra. I think we have established that both brands and probably others have the same issues. Its the industry
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:58 PM   #41
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Congratulations...all...an industry problem now becomes a reason to to buy Entegra. A whine becomes a major issue. I hate to be a jack...,but I got better things to work than sawdust behind a panel and wiring that I'm not going to trace!
I think we are merely stating observations and experiences. The post that said he wont buy an entegra doesnt realize that the pics he is looking at are of a newmar. If you have a wiring issue you will either trace it yourself or pay someone, you wont have a choice.
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:59 PM   #42
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Sad:( Didn't read the full thread. Welcome to the downside of the forum. Take one post out of the context of the full discussion and you can quickly draw some incomplete or downright wrong conclusions:(
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