Community Forums

Gary.Jones · 11-24-2020, 05:54 AM

I am currently at Spartan getting several problems taken care of while still under warranty and have heard from my tech some information that I can share on one specific issue. I will also share a couple of other new pieces of information with the group after I get these problems resolved.

The issue is that there has been a long debate here on the forum on whether you should optimally wait for the engine icon on the Valid digital dash to extinguish before trying to roll your engine. I addressed this issue with my tech working on my coach and here is what I was told.

I was told that there is no "air heater" (actually, there is a technical term for the heater device that heats air before it goes into the Cummins but I dont know or remember the name) in the X-15 Cummins engine and therefore, there is no advantage or need to wait for the engine icon on the dash to extinguish before starting the engine. I was told that is not true for the ISL - 450s and that it is good policy to pause when starting and waiting for that empty engine icon to disappear before pushing the button to roll the Cummins, but that the delay is unnecessary with the X-15 (and I am assuming this applies to the ISX-15 also but that is an assumption).

So, you guys and girls with the newer edition of the 600-605 Cummins can fire it right up with no delay, based on what I learned here.

Gary

brobox · 11-24-2020, 06:00 AM

Sorry I am not buying that. First time my coach goes into a shop and it is quick started, I am down waiting for a DEF sensor. Speaking of DEF sensors, has Spartan said anything about those problems. I do not believe Spartan know the answer and they don't know the answer how a quick start effects a DEF sensor. Just My Experience.
If Spartan knew what caused DEF heads to go down, they wouldn't be on Generation 6. Maybe their recommend stating procedure? Cummins says to wait, so I will wait.

Gary.Jones · 11-24-2020, 06:03 AM

Chuck

You may be right, but your problem also just might be a chance occurrence. I am just relaying the information that I got from a guy that sure as heck should know what he is talking about....

I will not be waiting for the icon to disappear in the future

Gary

Droski · 11-24-2020, 06:22 AM

In the Ag world, we have preached for years to our customers to let the ECM, CCM and all the other electronics to boot up before firing. This does cause less issues!

brobox · 11-24-2020, 06:33 AM

Gary. last time I checked Spartan manufactured chassis and Cummins manufactured engine's. When a DEF sensor goes down Spartan tells you to take it to Cummins. Cummins says to wait. People are free to do what they want with their coaches and believe what manufacture they want

Gasman 2 · 11-24-2020, 06:38 AM

I would think at least you would want to wait until it went through the ABS check for each wheel position before starting.

brobox · 11-24-2020, 07:47 AM

For those interested I just reviewed the Cummins X15 owner's manual. Section 1 page 1-2 start up procedure. The yellow check engine light on startup is to indicate if there is an engine malfunction. Starting before the light is off one will never know if there is a problem if the self checks are not complete. The light will flash with in 30 seconds if there's a problem. I guess that is why Cummins says to wait.
Having experienced two failed DEF sensors, I am familiar with the warning. On the digital dash it will be a flashing amber Emissions light

Turbojack · 11-24-2020, 07:58 AM

I have an older coach but when I bought it I hit the key, did not see any wait to start light come on and and started the engine. Next time I just turned the key on and started. I think on my 3rd start an error message came up on the dash. Looked it up and it had to do with a sensor in the exhaust. It was one of the error codes that will derate the engine after driving ?? so many miles per Cummins. There was a mobile mechanic in the area and he put his computer on the engine. He was able to clear the code and said all looked good. He told me that he bet that I started the engine as soon as I turned the key on. He said you should wait a short while before starting. I have been doing that since.

Rollin101 · 11-24-2020, 08:16 AM

My take is it certainly can’t hurt to wait and let the sequence run it’s course before starting. If down the road we continue to have problems with the def sensors at least we’ll know it wasn’t caused by quick starting.JMHO

LWBAZ · 11-24-2020, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollin101

My take is it certainly can’t hurt to wait and let the sequence run it’s course before starting. If down the road we continue to have problems with the def sensors at least we’ll know it wasn’t caused by quick starting.JMHO

My take as well.

In the grand scheme of RV ownership and travel, waiting a few seconds to fire the engine is lost in the rounding. Whether it's absolutely necessary is debatable, but I can't see that it hurts anything and it MIGHT do some good. To each his own.

Gary, if you see technician par excellence Andy Potter while you're there in the thriving metropolis of Charlotte, Michigan, please pass along my regards and best wishes for a Happy Thanksgiving.

cti2000 · 11-25-2020, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

I was told that there is no "air heater" (actually, there is a technical term for the heater device that heats air before it goes into the Cummins but I dont know or remember the name) in the X-15 Cummins engine and therefore, there is no advantage or need to wait for the engine icon on the dash to extinguish before starting the engine. I was told that is not true for the ISL - 450s and that it is good policy to pause when starting and waiting for that empty engine icon to disappear before pushing the button to roll the Cummins, but that the delay is unnecessary with the X-15 (and I am assuming this applies to the ISX-15 also but that is an assumption).

So, you guys and girls with the newer edition of the 600-605 Cummins can fire it right up with no delay, based on what I learned here.

Gary

The heater device the tech mentioned is a grid heater that is used in the ISL engine to preheat the air at the intake. The warning you will get for this is a "Low Chassis Voltage" which will go away once the engine is running and the alternator is making voltage. X12 and X15's don't have the grid heater.

During the Spartan class I attended last summer it was mentioned to allow all the sensors to check in before starting.

RandyRich · 11-29-2020, 11:01 PM

Your right about waiting, I took mine to Cummins with an Amber Check Engine Light a few weeks ago and it had a DPF light and Code. I was told this was my fault for not waiting until the panel lights went out. They cleared the codes and off I went. There are lots of sensors that need to be checked prior to starting and not waiting can cause issues. Lesson learned!

brobox · 11-30-2020, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowrower

Your right about waiting, I took mine to Cummins with an Amber Check Engine Light a few weeks ago and it had a DPF light and Code. I was told this was my fault for not waiting until the panel lights went out. They cleared the codes and off I went. There are lots of sensors that need to be checked prior to starting and not waiting can cause issues. Lesson learned!

Your Cummins shop gave you good information. It is the same on the 14's, 19's the 21's and everything in between. I am going in Wednesday for a DEF sensor replacement because my coach was quick started. Fortunately they were able to clear your codes, mine will not clear, permanent damage part had to be shipped.