Community Forums

rScotty · 10-12-2020, 11:10 AM

OK....This new to us is a 4 year old Navion 24J has been sitting for the past year,
and the starting battery is low (11.70 v). I'm hoping that a long charge session with my BatteryMinder smart charger will revive it. That charger has worked miracles before.

But after finally figuring out how to get to chassis battery, I cannot tell if it is AGM or flooded cell. If it is a flooded cell I assume it needs the water checked, and it does appear to have two of some sort of openable lids with small handles on the top of the battery. My guess is that removing that top cover would show water level in the individual cells. It has an obvious vent as well.

So based on those covers and the obvious vent, this battery would seem to be a flooded cell type and I should check the water before connecting to my smart charger. But I've heard rumors that the starter battery is an AGM type.

Which is correct?
Thanks, rScotty

AudiDudi · 10-12-2020, 11:35 AM

I'm pretty sure if you take the part number off the battery, you will find it is an AGM. My 2016 Prism 24G came with an AGM and I replaced it about 6 months ago when PepBoys had them on sale for about $125 after sale price and rebate.

Those handles you see are there to lift/lower the battery as far as I know.

Winterbagoal · 10-12-2020, 12:22 PM

Another good reason for downloading or securing (at a MB dealer) a copy of the MB chassis owner's manual for your cab chassis. Most of the chassis related info is in it.
btw, I found another thread about these on the internet, and one of the posters wrote, "It is a GEL type battery (aH 100 and engine start), non-serviceable / maintenance-free and vented. Not an AGM (optional 95aH and Deep Cycle). MB never spec'd/installed a Wet/Flooded (maintenance req'd) battery."
Thread here (p.s. Google can be your friend on a lot of this stuff)
https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i...threads/37029/

AudiDudi · 10-12-2020, 03:31 PM

That thread is from 2014. I am pretty sure that the one in my 2016 was an AGM - that Varta part number goes to a tpe 49/H8 AGM as I recall.

One thing you do not want to do when replacing it is to have someone use an OBDII "memory saver". It will cause all kinds of error codes.

Winterbagoal · 10-12-2020, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudiDudi

That thread is from 2014. I am pretty sure that the one in my 2016 was an AGM - that Varta part number goes to a tpe 49/H8 AGM as I recall.

One thing you do not want to do when replacing it is to have someone use an OBDII "memory saver". It will cause all kinds of error codes.

The battery pictures in both threads look very similar, almost identical. Group 49 I believe is correct.
Farther into that thread, the controversy increases, and someone suggests it's a vented maintenance free lead acid battery. I don't know very many AGM batteries that have the little "peekaboo" hole in the top to show you their state of health, now that I think of it. That's so Delco, and so sealed maintenance free FLA.
Mine is supposed to be an AGM, but I've never looked.
Here's the 2015 Sprinter brochure and it has all the specs...it's probably in there somewhere...
https://www.mercedes-benz-vans.ca/fi...chure_2015.pdf

Looking at it, it looks like the 4CYL I4 cab chassis got a "AGM Battery 95 Ah/850 CCA (4-cylinder only)", but the 6CYL V6 got a "Battery, high capacity 100 Ah/760 CCA (6-cylinder only)", if I read the chart correctly. So if his unit has the 3.0L V6, it's somewhere between a FLA and a GEL?
Farther down in Optional equipment, the 6 cylinder had the AGM as an optional battery. So, if Winnebago opted for the AGM, you had one, otherwise some sort of maint free, vented, FLA.

AudiDudi · 10-12-2020, 08:08 PM

My 2016 had an 825CCA (850??) battery in it. As I recall, I replaced it with a 900CCA. I believe it was this one: https://www.pepboys.com/champion-agm...roduct/2071679

When I bought it, it had a $40 rebate on top of the 25% off so it was about $125 installed with a 4 yr warranty.

I checked with the dealer in Gilbert, AZ. As I recall, they were about $300+ for the battery and another $150+ to install.

rScotty · 10-12-2020, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

The battery pictures in both threads look very similar, almost identical. Group 49 I believe is correct.
Farther into that thread, the controversy increases, and someone suggests it's a vented maintenance free lead acid battery. I don't know very many AGM batteries that have the little "peekaboo" hole in the top to show you their state of health, now that I think of it. That's so Delco, and so sealed maintenance free FLA.
Mine is supposed to be an AGM, but I've never looked.
Here's the 2015 Sprinter brochure and it has all the specs...it's probably in there somewhere...
https://www.mercedes-benz-vans.ca/fi...chure_2015.pdf

Looking at it, it looks like the 4CYL I4 cab chassis got a "AGM Battery 95 Ah/850 CCA (4-cylinder only)", but the 6CYL V6 got a "Battery, high capacity 100 Ah/760 CCA (6-cylinder only)", if I read the chart correctly. So if his unit has the 3.0L V6, it's somewhere between a FLA and a GEL?
Farther down in Optional equipment, the 6 cylinder had the AGM as an optional battery. So, if Winnebago opted for the AGM, you had one, otherwise some sort of maint free, vented, FLA.

Thanks everyone for the comments.
I looked more closely at the battery this afternoon and have learned a little more. What looked at first like a removeable top where water might be added is in fact integral with the top of the battery. It's fairly bulky and vented, but not removeable.
I'm now thinking that all the bulk on the top is some sort of water recovery system that takes what is basically a flooded lead acid type battery and makes it into a hybrid - call it a "maintenace free flooded cell battery". Best of both worlds.....
That would also expain why this battery has an "eye" to monitor fluid level. There wouldn't be any point in having that eye if the battery acid was in the form of a a gel or suspended in an applied glass matrix (AGM).

Right now I'm charging it overnight with the smart charger set for the Flooded Lead/Acid charging program. Tomorrow - if the smart charger agrees - I'll take it off the charger, leave the battery neg. post disconnected, and see what the voltage looks like after a few hours to a day of just sitting.
rScotty

Mark_K5LXP · 10-13-2020, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rScotty

Thanks everyone for the comments.
What looked at first like a removeable top where water might be added is in fact integral with the top of the battery. It's fairly bulky and vented, but not removeable.

Not saying you're wrong but I'd bet it comes off somehow, you just haven't discovered how yet. It does appear to be some kind of vapor containment/vent deal and also has what is called in motorcycle circles a "puke tube" exiting off of one side, which I'm guessing is just routed somewhere towards the ground. Every "maintenance free" battery I've ever had I've popped the tops and checked electrolyte and every one has needed a shot of water at some point. "Maintenance free" only means "free" long enough to make it past the warranty but if you keep up with it you can potentially get these things to go much longer than that. 11.7V for an idle battery is pretty low but giving it a good long soak on a charger might bring it back to some level of service. If the charger offers an equalization mode I'd run that too. Static voltage after charging won't tell you much about merit though, only way to know is putting the hurt to it (starting and load currents) so that'll be the litmus test. You've got nothing to lose at this point so keep at it until you have good reason to consider the patient expired.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

f14av8r · 10-19-2020, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rScotty

OK....This new to us is a 4 year old Navion 24J has been sitting for the past year,
and the starting battery is low (11.70 v). I'm hoping that a long charge session with my BatteryMinder smart charger will revive it. That charger has worked miracles before.

But after finally figuring out how to get to chassis battery, I cannot tell if it is AGM or flooded cell. If it is a flooded cell I assume it needs the water checked, and it does appear to have two of some sort of openable lids with small handles on the top of the battery. My guess is that removing that top cover would show water level in the individual cells. It has an obvious vent as well.

So based on those covers and the obvious vent, this battery would seem to be a flooded cell type and I should check the water before connecting to my smart charger. But I've heard rumors that the starter battery is an AGM type.

Which is correct?
Thanks, rScotty

The MB part number is on the battery - A 000 982 33 08. A google search will get you plenty of information, like here - https://www.mbpartsworld.com/oem-par...ery-0009823308

It is a GEL type battery (aH 100 and engine start), non-serviceable / maintenance-free and vented. Not an AGM (optional 95aH and Deep Cycle). MB never spec'd/installed a Wet/Flooded (maintenance req'd) battery. The vents are in case the battery is overcharged - it will vent through the tubes. The battery is not serviceable. The indicator will tell you if it is overcharged or the gel level otherwise becomes low, in which case you will have to replace it.

rScotty · 10-20-2020, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark_K5LXP

Not saying you're wrong but I'd bet it comes off somehow, you just haven't discovered how yet.....SNIP..... giving it a good long soak on a charger might bring it back to some level of service. If the charger offers an equalization mode I'd run that too. Static voltage after charging won't tell you much about merit though, only way to know is putting the hurt to it (starting and load currents) so that'll be the litmus test. You've got nothing to lose at this point so keep at it until you have good reason to consider the patient expired.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

No, the top is clearly integral with the case. It doesn't come off for adding water.
I agree that some batteries do come back when charged with a modern smart charger with equalization. I did that, but no gain. It is in the shop right now for routine service which will include a new battery. Cost of the battery is expected to be a couple hundred bucks plus an hour for install.

Several people have mentioned that it might be a gel cell, but so far I have found no proof of that and several things are against it being a gel: the price of the battery is way too low for gel cell technology, the "eye" on top is a feature of wet cells, and gel cells aren't usually used for hi-amp draw as in starting. Also gels would require a different charging spec that is still not common - and not compatible with the rest of the batteries in the Navion.

As far as I can see, that chassis battery is a normal maintenance-free wet acid type with a rather complicated gas/liquid recovery and venting system on top. What we used to call "hybrids". Typcial MB.

Someday someone will chop one open and then know for sure.

This whole conversation takes me back to being a kid in rural Arkansas. Being the eldest, it fell to me to rebuild the battery on our old Ford when it began to fail. We were careful and it was never a problem. Most of the time the rebuild worked.
rScotty