99% Biomass diesel at Chevron

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by johninsd

I've emailed Chevron and MB to ask about this - will post any replies/updates -

Good call. Kinda like what I suggetsed in post #7.

[Rocinante440]

Originally Posted by move on

I pulled into a station to fill up the other day. They had three different pumps with three different types of diesel. Not only did I not feel like studying up on the formulas but I figured that the guy who delivered the stuff and put it into the different tanks was probably too confused to get it right. I drove down the road to another station.

Three is the most diesel types I've seen at one station at the same time. This was in MI on the UP, in the town of Munising:
* #2 Diesel - the stuff I wanted
* #1 Diesel - because it gets really cold up there sometimes
* Off-road Diesel (Dyed red to indicate it's not taxed for use on highways. If they catch you with this in your Sprinter, things get very expensive very quickly.)

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by Rocinante440

Three is the most diesel types I've seen at one station at the same time. This was in MI on the UP, in the town of Munising:
* #2 Diesel - the stuff I wanted
* #1 Diesel - because it gets really cold up there sometimes
* Off-road Diesel (Dyed red to indicate it's not taxed for use on highways. If they catch you with this in your Sprinter, things get very expensive very quickly.)

Great little town. I miss the MI UP. Since COVID closed the border.

[johninsd]

Well I heard back from Chevron - here's what they wrote:

"Products_Diesel_Case#02755544_VCGV
Inbox

Consumer Connection Center <cccweb@chevron.com>
Fri, Nov 12, 11:14 AM (1 day ago)
to me

Dear John Walker,

Thank you for contacting Chevron regarding your diesel inquiry. The Consumer Connection Center primarily handles complaints and inquiries related to active Chevron and Texaco retail operations in US and Canada. We have forwarded this to the appropriate group for assistance.

If you have specific questions about the following:

1) Chevron or Texaco branded lubricants or coolant products, you may want to call our Lubetek Center at 1-800-582-3835, press 5.
2) Chevron or Texaco fuel products, you may want to call our Fueltek Center at 1-510-242-5357, press 3.

Our Lubricants and Fuel Product Specialists are readily available to address your inquiries. Thank you for taking the time to write to us.

Thank you again for your inquiry and for allowing us the opportunity to respond to your concerns.

Sincerely,

Valerie Navarro
Consumer Connection Center Specialist
Chevron Products Company, a division of Chevron U.S.A Inc.


Please see link for Privacy Statement: http://www.chevron.com/privacystatement/

______________________________________________

Name of Customer: John Walker
Contact Details: jayelldoubleu@gmail.com
Complaint/Inquiry Details:

I recently stopped at a Chevron station and noticed a new sticker on the diesel pumps stating that they contain "99% Biomass-Based Diesel Blend". As I drive a Mercedes Benz Sprinter that says not to use more than 5% biodiesel I am hesitant to use this fuel. The sticker also says "contains more than 20% biomass-based diesel or biodiesel". The biomass based diesel should be fine but if there is more than 5% biodiesel Mercedes says not to use it. Any way to tell what exactly is in the pump at any given time? Or do I need to find a new station?"

They say they forwarded the message to the "appropriate group" but don't say what that group is. Also sent two phone numbers - haven't tried them yet.

The second sentence of their response says that "
The Consumer Connection Center primarily handles complaints and inquiries related to active Chevron and Texaco retail operations in US and Canada." - it seems to me that my inquiry was asking about a retail operation in the US - I inquired as to what exactly are they selling from the diesel pump?

Guess I'll try the phone next - but it has been my experience that when anyone refuses to answer questions in writing or via email it is because they don't want there to be a written record of what they said.

Still waiting to hear from MB. For now I'll try to find another station that still sells actual diesel. Might be a long shot in California.

[Winterbagoal]

From a prior post of mine...
"I've often asked about what's in the diesel at fuel stops, when there is no label (supposed to be dino-diesel, I know, but?), or the labels are confusing (like case in point), and got the "blank stare" or "I dunno" or "let me ask the manager" answers. 11-08-2021 01:24 PM"

I think you just got the equivalent, in writing.

For me, unless there were no other options, I wouldn't use that stuff.

[johninsd]

Just out of curiosity I drove around the local area looking at diesel pumps. None of the other stations nearby had the same stickers on the pumps, not even another Chevron station a few miles from the first one. So when I next fill my RV I'll just use one of those stations that don't have the stickers. Still no answer from MB and no further info from Chevron - but Chevron did send me a survey to fill out asking about their original response - I told them it wasn't a useful response and have received no response to that response. Who's on first?

[Winterbagoal]

Until (or if) you get an answer that actually explains what the labels mean, I'd avoid it, and do as you intend. Go elsewhere. (creates plausible deniability, in case of warranty issues?)
You gave it a good shot. Stand down.

[johninsd]

OK - lastpost on this - I did hear back from MB - here's what they said -

"


Subject
I have an RV built on a 2015 Sprinter 3500 chassis. It has the 3.0 liter diesel...

Response By Email (Debra A.) (11/09/2021 01:41 PM)
Dear Mr. Walker,

Thank you for your email to Mercedes-Benz USA.

Congratulations on the purchase of your 2015 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter.

The required fuel for the Sprinter is the ultra low sulfur diesel fuel (15 ppm sulphur maximum).

Today's line of vehicles employ a sophisticated engine that uses a high pressure fuel injection system, a diesel particulate filter and diesel exhaust fluid (AdBlue) to deliver outstanding performance and fuel economy. As they are such complex machines they require specific fuel, the ULSD with not more then 5% biodiesel content.

Unfortunately we cannot recommend using any other type of fuels for your vehicle or have knowledge of what would happen if used.

I have attached information on the ULSD for your review.

Sorry we could not be of more assistance.

Wishing you safe and pleasant travels.


Kind Regards,

Debbie A.
Mercedes-Benz USA
(800) 367-6372

Customer By CSS Web (John Walker) (11/09/2021 12:15 PM)
I have an RV built on a 2015 Sprinter 3500 chassis. It has the 3.0 liter diesel V6. I recently saw a sticker on a diesel pump which states the pump dispenses "99% Biomass Based Diesel Blend". This is at a Chevron station. It goes on to state "contains more than 20 percent biomass-based diesel or biodiesel". Does this fuel meet MB's requirements for the Sprinter engine?
Question Reference # 211109-000040
Date Created: 11/09/2021 12:15 PM
Date Last Updated: 11/09/2021 01:41 PM



"

So I won't be using that Chevron station any longer -

[Winterbagoal]

Even better, a useful, definitive, answer.
Well done, sir!

[LAT-LON]

You know, I like the Sprinter, but if it's going to become an issue finding fuel for it maybe I should consider something else. You shouldn't need a degree in chemistry to just buy fuel. It sounds like, in the future, when you pull up to a pump, there will be no way of telling what's in the stations tanks. I sure wouldn't believe what sticker may or may not be on the pump housing.

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by johninsd

OK - lastpost on this - I did hear back from MB - here's what they said -

"


Subject
I have an RV built on a 2015 Sprinter 3500 chassis. It has the 3.0 liter diesel...

Response By Email (Debra A.) (11/09/2021 01:41 PM)
Dear Mr. Walker,

Thank you for your email to Mercedes-Benz USA.

Congratulations on the purchase of your 2015 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter.

The required fuel for the Sprinter is the ultra low sulfur diesel fuel (15 ppm sulphur maximum).

Today's line of vehicles employ a sophisticated engine that uses a high pressure fuel injection system, a diesel particulate filter and diesel exhaust fluid (AdBlue) to deliver outstanding performance and fuel economy. As they are such complex machines they require specific fuel, the ULSD with not more then 5% biodiesel content.

Unfortunately we cannot recommend using any other type of fuels for your vehicle or have knowledge of what would happen if used.

I have attached information on the ULSD for your review.

Sorry we could not be of more assistance.

Wishing you safe and pleasant travels.


Kind Regards,

Debbie A.
Mercedes-Benz USA
(800) 367-6372

Customer By CSS Web (John Walker) (11/09/2021 12:15 PM)
I have an RV built on a 2015 Sprinter 3500 chassis. It has the 3.0 liter diesel V6. I recently saw a sticker on a diesel pump which states the pump dispenses "99% Biomass Based Diesel Blend". This is at a Chevron station. It goes on to state "contains more than 20 percent biomass-based diesel or biodiesel". Does this fuel meet MB's requirements for the Sprinter engine?
Question Reference # 211109-000040
Date Created: 11/09/2021 12:15 PM
Date Last Updated: 11/09/2021 01:41 PM



"

So I won't be using that Chevron station any longer -

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Even better, a useful, definitive, answer.
Well done, sir!

The reply from MB was nothing more than an rehash of their official position on the use of bio-fuel in their vehicles. It is a CYA answer to the question posed by the OP which does not address the essence of the query, which was, What is the make up of the Chevron 99% bio-diesel blend and does it meet MB standards? In no way is that a definitive answer to the OP's question rather, it's a deflection. All that was accomplished is that it appears MB has no information about that Chevron fuel and cannot recommend or condemn it for use.

Originally Posted by LAT-LON

You know, I like the Sprinter, but if it's going to become an issue finding fuel for it maybe I should consider something else. You shouldn't need a degree in chemistry to just buy fuel. It sounds like, in the future, when you pull up to a pump, there will be no way of telling what's in the stations tanks. I sure wouldn't believe what sticker may or may not be on the pump housing.

The way this can be avoided is for a clear, understandable and universal labeling of diesel fuel at all pumps, and that labeling be enforced. MB would have no issue with 100% renewable diesel, or even a blend down to 95% with 5% being bio-diesel, as that fuel is chemically identical to petroleum based diesel of the same percentages.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by LAT-LON

You know, I like the Sprinter, but if it's going to become an issue finding fuel for it maybe I should consider something else. You shouldn't need a degree in chemistry to just buy fuel. It sounds like, in the future, when you pull up to a pump, there will be no way of telling what's in the stations tanks. I sure wouldn't believe what sticker may or may not be on the pump housing.

That goes for gas as well, IMO. Not really knowing what you're getting based on pump labels (or lack, thereof).
Perhaps a gas version might work better for some, although I don't think they'll ever get upfitted into small class C/A motorhomes, due to the likely poorer fuel economy, and the related poor low RPM power. Gas ICE don't pull like diesels. They might make a decent class B, if they don't use up all the GVWR in the upfit.
Some Sprinter gasser comments...
https://www.google.com/search?q=gas+...client=gws-wiz

[wolfe10]

Originally Posted by johninsd

OK - lastpost on this - I did hear back from MB - here's what they said -

"


Subject
I have an RV built on a 2015 Sprinter 3500 chassis. It has the 3.0 liter diesel...

Response By Email (Debra A.) (11/09/2021 01:41 PM)
Dear Mr. Walker,

Thank you for your email to Mercedes-Benz USA.

Congratulations on the purchase of your 2015 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter.

The required fuel for the Sprinter is the ultra low sulfur diesel fuel (15 ppm sulphur maximum).

Today's line of vehicles employ a sophisticated engine that uses a high pressure fuel injection system, a diesel particulate filter and diesel exhaust fluid (AdBlue) to deliver outstanding performance and fuel economy. As they are such complex machines they require specific fuel, the ULSD with not more then 5% biodiesel content.

Unfortunately we cannot recommend using any other type of fuels for your vehicle or have knowledge of what would happen if used.

I have attached information on the ULSD for your review.

Sorry we could not be of more assistance.

Wishing you safe and pleasant travels.


Kind Regards,

Debbie A.
Mercedes-Benz USA
(800) 367-6372

SORRY, this is Corporate CYA.


Were one to investigate, doubt Debbie has ever been under the hood of an MB Sprinter and just "regurgitated" the corporate line.


Not suggesting other manufacturers are different, but most "Customer Contact" inquiries are handled by CLERKS.


Spent my whole career in the automotive field-- I know.


Now, in their defense-- how much extra would you be willing to pay to have a savvy tech on the "hot line"????


Engine manufacturers-- different.


Chassis manufacturers-- different (usually!)


Coach manufacturers-- different (sometimes)!


Welcome to REAL WORLD OF CYA/Corporate double speak.


Actually, the best answer on this thread IMO is from the Petroleum Engineer.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by Ljwt330

The reply from MB was nothing more than an rehash of their official position on the use of bio-fuel in their vehicles. It is a CYA answer to the question posed by the OP which does not address the essence of the query, which was, What is the make up of the Chevron 99% bio-diesel blend and does it meet MB standards? In no way is that a definitive answer to the OP's question rather, it's a deflection. All that was accomplished is that it appears MB has no information about that Chevron fuel and cannot recommend or condemn it for use.

If you own a MB Sprinter, and it's under warranty, that clarifies what they will allow as a fuel source for their vehicles to be covered under that warranty.
"address the essence"? What? How would MB customer support know what Chevron puts in their fuels? Go ahead, I'll wait.

Originally Posted by Ljwt330

The way this can be avoided is for a clear, understandable and universal labeling of diesel fuel at all pumps, and that labeling be enforced. MB would have no issue with 100% renewable diesel, or even a blend down to 95% with 5% being bio-diesel, as that fuel is chemically identical to petroleum based diesel of the same percentages.

In a perfect world, all that might be true. However, your assumption about MB approving your favored biomass/biofuel fuel blend, might be presuming too much. The bottom line is, if they say "no", that means "no". Use at your own peril.

Adieu.