99% Biomass diesel at Chevron

[LAT-LON]

So, once again corporations are covering their butts and leaving it up to the customers to figure out what to do. It used to be simple. Look for a service station that sells diesel and then find a pump that you can get to. Now, you have to read all the labels on the pump and get out your "cheat sheet" to determine if the fuel that's being sold will destroy your engine or not. All this is a far cry from when Rudolf Diesel ran is first engine on vegetable oil.

[johninsd]

OP here - I know I said that a previous post would be my last on this subject it just seems more logical to post this latest info here rather than starting a new thread.

So here goes:

I went to refuel at the local Chevron that had previously NOT sported the stickers shown in post #1. Lo and behold the pumps now have even more confusing stickers than the originals. Here's a pic:




Anyone else ever seen this? I thought that "renewable Diesel" and "Biodiesel" were two different things - now I see that this sticker says "Renewable Biodiesel B20". It also says "80% Biomass Based Diesel Blend". So my guess is that its 20% Biodiesel and the other 80% is Biomass diesel. But who knows?

[fore_sail]

I only use 100% organic diesel.

[TandW]

I am more curious as to how Pennzoil is creating motor oil from natural gas.

[johninsd]

Still beating this dead horse I have found that California ARCO stations that have diesel do not have any "Biodiesel" or "Biomass" stickers on their pumps. This implies that they are selling real diesel fuel so they will be my preferred stations for now. Would be really nice if stations were to label their pumps with the ASTM standard with which their product complies - wishful thinking I know...

[VinceB]

Originally Posted by johninsd

Still beating this dead horse I have found that California ARCO stations that have diesel do not have any "Biodiesel" or "Biomass" stickers on their pumps. This implies that they are selling real diesel fuel so they will be my preferred stations for now. Would be really nice if stations were to label their pumps with the ASTM standard with which their product complies - wishful thinking I know...

That is different now. All my local ARCO stations (91750) have 99% bio-mass as do the 76 stations.

[johninsd]

Originally Posted by VinceB

That is different now. All my local ARCO stations (91750) have 99% bio-mass as do the 76 stations.

I went to the ARCO at 8820 Clairemont Mesa Blvd. 92123 yesterday and filled up with diesel there. Still no "Biomass" or "Biodiesel" stickers on the pumps so in theory that means they are still selling real diesel. $5.99 a gallon though.

[96 Wideglide]

Originally Posted by johninsd

I went to the ARCO at 8820 Clairemont Mesa Blvd. 92123 yesterday and filled up with diesel there. Still no "Biomass" or "Biodiesel" stickers on the pumps so in theory that means they are still selling real diesel. $5.99 a gallon though.

Believe they can use up to 5% bio without posting it on the pump.

[bigb56]

There has been extensive discussion on this at Sprintersource including a Zoom call with a refinery engineer and written input from those in the industry. At this time the only 3 states where you will see the renewables are CA, WA and OR. (we were told that this may be the case for a long time to come as there just isn't enough production capacity to expand to other states) The consensus is that anything labeled R99 or R95 is 99 or 95% renewable and meets ASTM D975 which is the standard for diesel fuel oils. It can contain up to 5% biodiesel just like ULSD. Mercedes specifies in their literature to use fuels meeting ASTM D975.
R80 is another matter, it is just like B20 in that it can be 80% renewable and 20% biodiesel which does not meet ASTM D975 and not recommended by Mercedes.
As mentioned, Mercedes is slow to react to this matter, and being sold only in one part of the world in conjunction with the small number of MB diesels now available for the US market (not to mention the spanking they got from CARB) I doubt they care to spend much research time on this so they just say "We haven't tested and evaluated it so we don't really know".
There are members in the 3 states using the R99 and R95, and eventually it may be your only choice in those states. One of the engineers we spoke with re-iterated how poorly worded and confusing the labels are and said they are working to correct that but it's no easy task when the government is involved. He assured us that as long as the label says R99 or R95 is is as good as, or better than ULSD and is not anything like B20. When I travel to CA I won't hesitate to use it in my Sprinter.
Incidentally we also spoke to another engineer who informed us that the present biodiesel fuels are a much better product than early versions. The main problem is it's tendency to attract moisture and if you have no choice but to run it in your Bluetec engine then it is suggested that you burn it asap and not store it with B20 in the tank.

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by luvlabs

Ljwt330's explanation is right on. The labeling is very poor in the example provided by the OP. However, no commercial station sells biodiesel more than B20 in the US and if you need fuel, use it.

While Mercedes is a little slow in responding to market changes, Cummins fully supports Biomass derived diesel. Biomass diesel will become more common in the future and engine builders are going to have to accept it.

Yes there is; about 7-8 years ago on I 70 about the middle of MO. I saw a truck stop with a sign "100% biodiesel sold here".


There is an argument that petroleum fuels are a biomass product based on the origin.

[KenZ71]

I generally follow the big rigs - if big semis fill-up then I will top.

If they don't risk their livelihood due to the fuel or lack of easy access it is a no go for me too

[Rocinante440]

Big rigs can burn nearly anything. Sprinters don't like more than 5% Biodiesel. So, while I also prefer to fill up where there's plenty of volume moving through the tanks, I'm still careful at truck stops in states where B20 is allowed and try not to use it unless there's no other alternative.

[VinceB]

Saw these on a pump this AM in So Cal at a 76 station.

Looks to me that it is R95. 5% bio diesel and 95% renewable diesel. I can't see why it was made so confusing. Lawyers...

I would not be afraid to run it. Cummins says that my 2001 ISC 330 can take up to 7% bio diesel. My duramax can take up to B20. Still can't get either one to sign off on it in writing/email though.

[604eholston]

This label says to me that this pump has 95% manufactured fuel and 5% petroleum. Renewable tp me is plant based. I sure would NOT put it in my tank.