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Old 12-13-2015, 08:29 PM   #1
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Angry Problems with 2015 View

We just bought our 2015 Winnebago View Feb 2015. Ist time we took it out the air conditioner didn't work. Grrrr. The dealer put a whole new unit in. Now the heater doesn't work properly. We were told that if the outside is 36degrees or below you have to use the propane heater. The manual says it will automatically switch to propane. Last night it was 46 degrees and the heater was pulsing on then off. It didn't automatically switch to propane nor was it below 36 degrees. Finally just turned it off.

The other night it wouldn't start we had to use the boost. Now sometimes it sounds like it's not going to start.

Dang, its only got less than 1500 miles on it. We've only taken it out 3 times and not far at that.
Any others have this issue? Did we buy a lemon?
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:13 AM   #2
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We have a 2005 View purchased over two years ago. We have driven abt 30,000 miles with no real problems. I can get 16 miles to the gallon if I want. You may have a lemon. We could not be happier with this rig.
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Old 12-15-2015, 02:47 PM   #3
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plmjlm

That's great!! Does your heat pump work when its cold outside? Maybe its only the new ones that have an issue. We wanted to go camping over New Years with friends, but now I don't know if we will be able to because of the propane line issue that I got a recall on. They can't get the parts from Winnebago until after the new year. Frustrating!
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mransford View Post
We just bought our 2015 Winnebago View Feb 2015. Ist time we took it out the air conditioner didn't work. Grrrr. The dealer put a whole new unit in. Now the heater doesn't work properly. We were told that if the outside is 36degrees or below you have to use the propane heater. The manual says it will automatically switch to propane. Last night it was 46 degrees and the heater was pulsing on then off. It didn't automatically switch to propane nor was it below 36 degrees. Finally just turned it off.

The other night it wouldn't start we had to use the boost. Now sometimes it sounds like it's not going to start.

Dang, its only got less than 1500 miles on it. We've only taken it out 3 times and not far at that.
Any others have this issue? Did we buy a lemon?
It is possible the dealer did not set the "jumpers" or "dip" switches correctly on the thermostat or unit.

It is also possible you have a duff LP regulator.... Not unheard of... I know of three 2014/5s with duff regulators.

Auto switch to propane....Master outside near the LP tank "ON." LP switch inside, "ON."

Your View has a Coleman Mach 8 heat pump. Its complicated.... and your sales dude probably did a poor job explaining its operation.

First, RV HVAC systems are NOT like your home HVAC. They are much smaller capacity ... But they will do the job. Now the complicated part.... The HP works as an air conditioner in reverse. It will pump heat from outside to inside around 2 or 2.5 X efficiency (1 unit of energy = 2.5 BTU). About 35-45F its about 1:1 or a little less. At that point, you need supplemental heat. In your home a good old electric resistance heater strip cuts in (and the wheel on your electric meter spins like crazy!). In a View the supplement is the propane furnace. Now the complicated part... There is two heating systems..LP & HP and they work independently or in tandem depending on what the "brain" tells them to do.

The HP has a complicated algorithym governing when the furnace supplements....

(Assume you had the LP master ON and thermostat was in HP mode.)

If the room temperature is more than a couple degrees colder than the setting on the thermostat, the HP and the furnace operate together (warm air at ceiling and floor ducts) until ambient and thermostat match. At that point the HP will maintain the temperature and run as long and as often as necessary.

If the HP can't keep up, the LP will cut in and "boost" the temp back to setting.

Here's where it gets tricky... if the HP looses efficiency to the point that the LP has to run for a period of time or frequently AND the temps are 40F or less.... The computer shuts down the HP to protect it and View will only heat with LP. Because LP has lots of BTUs...it may cut in and out as necessary.

Meanwhile, the HP is "locked out" until it gets above 40F or for several hours. If it tries and fails to cut the mustard it will lock out and try again later....and later...and later...until it can produce enough heat and the LP is not used.

HPs will also go into a defrost cycle for the outside coil... Sometimes you may hear the switch over by the 'swooosh' of the freon cavitating in the valve manifold as it suddenly is forced to change directions. In defrost, it will use the LP as heat source. (In defrost cycle you may feel cold air coming out the ceiling ducts (it is working as an AC unit!) and hot air at the floor ducts).

If the thermostat is set on GAS mode the HP is locked out and only the LP furnace works.

And, all of that stuff is noisy!!!!

The work around is to get a small ceramic cube heater from WallyWorld. Its small enough wattage to use in the camper on shore power. Put up front in the lounge. It will keep the coach warm (cooler in back for sleeping) without overheating the coach. And it is QUIET. Basically free heat on shore power!

Another hint is when using the HP you can spoof the "brain" by turning the LP Master OFF. Then you are HP only but you have to keep an eye on outdoor temps and know when to get the LP back on.

Also, in HP put the fan on LO. On AC fan on HI.

STARTING. If you are using the radio or display in the dash...switch the power supply from chassis to house. Left on accidently or if key is on and radio on it will suck the life out of the chassis battery. Switch is next to boost switch...easy to leave in wrong position...

Drive with House Master Electric ON.

Again, its complicated .. There's three charging systems.....doin' different things.

Alternator ....charges chassis and house with motor running
Generator .....charges house & NOT chassis
Shore..... Charges house and chassis
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Old 12-16-2015, 11:32 AM   #5
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Old Crows,
Wow,
Thanks for all the great information.
You wrote: "Also, in HP put the fan on LO. On AC fan on HI."
Low and Hi produce the same results, Hi. I called the service department and he said "Yes, they are basically the same setting. No difference".
That didn't sound right to me.
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mransford View Post
Old Crows,
Wow,
Thanks for all the great information.
You wrote: "Also, in HP put the fan on LO. On AC fan on HI."
Low and Hi produce the same results, Hi. I called the service department and he said "Yes, they are basically the same setting. No difference".
That didn't sound right to me.
Your are welcome. Hope it helps understand how the Coleman HP pump works. Two years ago, I spent the Christmas Holidays, reading every page of every manual for our '14 View. The Coleman HP description of operation is very complicated once the ambient is below it's 'comfort' zone. Lets just say it's smart and has a mind of it's own and will begin heat pumping when it has a mind to.

Fan speeds might depend on the thermostat model. Mine will operate in two different speeds with the Heat Pump/AC.... Hi and Lo .... heat, cool or just fan. The LP furnace has only one speed (loud) .... maybe I didn't say that clearly enough.

My only complaint with the Coleman is that mine was extremely noisy inside and out. I fixed that with a MacGuyver repair.....
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Old 12-18-2015, 10:51 AM   #7
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Sorry, but what the Mcguyver repair?
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Old 12-18-2015, 02:58 PM   #8
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Sorry, but what the Mcguyver repair?
Prior to early 2015, the Coleman Mach 8 heat pump used a six bladed Cuisinart style fan to pull air through the condenser coil. These units have two motors, BTW. One for the condenser fan and one for the squirrel cage blower that pulls air through the expansion coil and drives the air circulation in the camper.

The condenser motor is a high speed job and the design of the fan is such that it is very noisy. (Think of a helicopter tail rotor!) Add in the thin light weight bonnet which is quite bendy and flexible. The vibration noise from the fan sets up vibration in the bonnet... since the bonnet is so light weight, it is like a drum head or a guitar. The outside unit becomes a big sound box......

Also, when the fan is operating the bonnet sucks down and rests on parts of the compressor. Now you got some real base drum vibration and noise going on....

This thing was so noisy you could hear it running from several hundred feet away over the top of the noise of A/C units running of several adjacent RVs. It was awful. It was embarrassing.

Since early 2015, the Cuisinart style fans were replaced with the 'shamrock' three blade design. The new design is more efficient at moving air and is very quiet. McGuyver step one is to replace the Cuisinart style with the new shamrock fan.

McGuyver step two (not part of the noise killing exercise) was to replace the black bonnet with a white one. Very useful in reflecting sun and heat buildup into the unit. McGuyver step three (not part of the noise killing exercise) was to replace the black bonnet with a white one. Very useful in killing heat penetration into the unit. (Yes.... ask yourself why Winnebago would specify black AC covers when it's so critical to keep the units cool for better efficiency.

McGuyver step three is to add mass damping material to the underside of the bonnet. The mass damping material I used is the aluminum faced butyl tape used in roof repairs and sealing penetrations in roofs. The result here was to kill the vibration transmission and amplification of sound and noise through the bonnet. An unintended consequence of adding the foil butyl tape is that it resists heat penetration and will keep the unit a little cooler.

McGuyver step four. While you have the bonnet off.... apply some the air handler. This reflects heat off the air handler. More cool!

The fan upgrade it also comes with a support to hold the bonnet away from the compressor bits. It doesn't work because it is about 3/4" too short to be effective. So, the compressor still supports the bonnet. Next time I'm on the roof of the RV, I'll fix that with a piece of medium density foam on top of the stand off.

The result is a very quiet unit inside and out. You can stand by the rear duals and carry on a conversation. It sounds like a small hoover running inside the RV.


I looked at modifications to the air handler fan mount to kill more vibration and noise. It just isn't possible to do anything quick and practical. It's basically a horizontal 'fan on a stick' cantilevered into the air handler. The motor mounted into the AC chassis with rubber mounts and brackets. It's a little wobbly but making it stiffer would only transmit vibration into the unit's chassis. It needs to have a little flex to absorb any balance problems in the fan. Once spun up its quiet enough although there is a vibrational period rumble as it slowly spins down, power off.


You can't do much about the fan and duct noise inside the camper except to change the shape of the inside of the boxy intake by making add a 'turning vane' to smooth the airflow to the small fan intake. This reduces turbulence, buffeting and noise in the air return. Light 'Blue Core' Styrofoam and HVAC aluminum tape are your friends.
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Old 12-18-2015, 04:16 PM   #9
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REPOSTED WITH CORRECTIONS....




Quote:
Originally Posted by mransford View Post
Sorry, but what the Mcguyver repair?
Prior to early 2015, the Coleman Mach 8 heat pump used a six bladed Cuisinart style fan to pull air through the condenser coil. These units have two motors. One for the condenser fan and one for the squirrel cage blower that pulls air through the expansion coil and drives the air circulation in the camper.

The condenser motor is a high speed job and the design of the fan is such that it is very noisy. (Think of a helicopter tail rotor!) Add in the thin light weight bonnet which is quite bendy and flexible. The vibration noise from the fan sets up vibration in the bonnet... since the bonnet is so light weight, it is like a drum head or a guitar. The outside unit becomes a big sound box......

Also, when the fan is operating the bonnet sucks down and rests on parts of the compressor. Now you got some real base drum vibration and noise going on....

This thing was so noisy you could hear it running from several hundred feet away over campground noise and the sound of A/C units running on adjacent RVs. It was awful. It was embarrassing.

Since early 2015, the Cuisinart style fans were replaced with the 'shamrock' three blade design. The new design is more efficient at moving air and is very quiet.

McGuyver step one is to replace the Cuisinart style with the new shamrock fan.

McGuyver step two (not part of the noise killing exercise) is to replace the black bonnet with a white one. Very useful in reflecting sun and heat buildup into the unit. McGuyver step three (not part of the noise killing exercise) was to replace the black bonnet with a white one. Very useful in killing heat penetation into the A/C unit. (Yes.... ask yourself why Winnebago would specify black AC covers when it's so critical to keep the units cool for better efficiency.

McGuyver step three is to add mass damping material to the underside of the bonnet. The mass damping material I used is the aluminum faced butyl tape used in roof repairs and sealing penetrations in roofs. The point here is to kill the vibration transmission and amplification of sound and noise in the bonnet. An unintended happy consequence of adding the foil butyl tape is that it resists heat penetration and will keep the unit a little cooler.

McGuyver step four. While you have the bonnet off.... apply some aluminum foil HVAC tape to the air handler. This reflects heat off the air handler. More cool!

The fan upgrade it also comes with a support to hold the bonnet away from the compressor bits. It doesn't work because it is about 3/4" too short to be effective. So, the compressor still supports the bonnet. Next time I'm on the roof of the RV, I'll fix that with a piece of medium density foam on top of the stand off.

The result is a very quiet unit inside and out. You can stand by the rear duals and carry on a conversation. It sounds like a small hoover running inside the RV.


I looked at modifications to the air handler fan mount to kill more vibration and noise. It just isn't possible to do anything quick and practical. It's basically a horizontal 'fan on a stick' cantilevered into the air handler. The motor mounted into the AC chassis with rubber mounts and brackets. It's a little wobbly but making it stiffer would only transmit vibration into the unit's chassis. It needs to have a little flex to absorb any balance problems in the fan. Once spun up its quiet enough although there is a vibrational period rumble as it slowly spins down, power off.


You can't do much about the fan and duct noise inside the camper except to change the shape of the inside of the boxy intake by making add a 'turning vane' to smooth the airflow to the small fan intake. This reduces turbulence, buffeting and noise in the air return. Light 'Blue Core' Styrofoam and HVAC aluminum tape are your friends.
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Old 12-19-2015, 10:54 AM   #10
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Good information.
One more question.
Propane recall....there is a switch to turn off the propane on the inside of the coach and one outside the coach. Do they both control the same thing? In other words If I turn off the inside one will I be safe as far as the recall is concerned?
I hope I'm explaining it right.

Thanks
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Old 12-19-2015, 02:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mransford View Post
Good information.
One more question.
Propane recall....there is a switch to turn off the propane on the inside of the coach and one outside the coach. Do they both control the same thing? In other words If I turn off the inside one will I be safe as far as the recall is concerned?
I hope I'm explaining it right.

Thanks
I don't know for sure. Wondered about that myself.......

I believe turning off either switch closes the valve near/on the tank. It would be the safest (and cheapist) design. Wouldn't make sense to have a remote valve and a bunch of ptentially leaky hose between the shut of valve and the pressurized tank.

This is the second LP related issue on our View. A year ago the regulator went south. Either poor quality regulator or moisture in the LP freezing and breaking the regulator. Now the hose.

WBGO has a big job replacing the hoses. Apparently, every model uses a different length.
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Old 12-19-2015, 03:32 PM   #12
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plmjlm

That's great!! Does your heat pump work when its cold outside? Maybe its only the new ones that have an issue. We wanted to go camping over New Years with friends, but now I don't know if we will be able to because of the propane line issue that I got a recall on. They can't get the parts from Winnebago until after the new year. Frustrating!
Just saw your post....

LP runs the furnace, fridge, water heater & generator (if propane). But.....If you think like the Martian!!!! You can make it work.....

Furnace and generator are kaput ... No LP.

Heat Pump & Microwave are 110V high wattage devices and require shore power.

If you have shore power you are in like Flynn. Get a ceramic cube type heater at WallyWorld. It will replace the kaput LP furnace. Its what we use instead of the furnace.

WH is LP or 11OV.
Fridge is 12V, LP or 110V.
These multi fuel devices can work on shore power, if available.

Everything else in the RV is 12V and can run off the coach batteries except fridge.
You can run some 110 V appliances, e.g., a coffee pot on the 1000W inverter.

Fridge works on 12V only with engine running. Its cold out so you may not need worry about it warming up too much when parked. *******



****** If you get a gender bender 20Amp to 30Amp adapter for the shore power cable on the RV, you can plug into a heavy duty dropline from a 20A/110V outlet at your friends house and power the fridge. It will charge the coach batteries as well but they shouldn't need much after a run with the RV. You might even squeek by with the WH ... Its not very high wattage... Just don't turn on the AC or HP .... Too much current draw. It might be able to run the cube heater, if you manage the system and avoid high wattage appliances and you have a short dropline.
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Old 12-20-2015, 11:54 AM   #13
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Old Crows:
Are you sure that when connected to shore power both the house and chassis batteries are being charged? It doesn't seem to be the case with my 2016 Navion. I've owned it since late July and when on shore power the chassis battery slowly looses voltage over time. I now keep a Battery Tender on the chassis battery during storage until I can have a Trik-L-Start installed.
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Old 12-20-2015, 05:44 PM   #14
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Old Crows:
Are you sure that when connected to shore power both the house and chassis batteries are being charged? It doesn't seem to be the case with my 2016 Navion. I've owned it since late July and when on shore power the chassis battery slowly looses voltage over time. I now keep a Battery Tender on the chassis battery during storage until I can have a Trik-L-Start installed.
Thanks Ken.... I miss typed...Shore charges only coach batteries. Thanks!

Only way to charge the chassis on shore power is to use a separate charger.

I don't have access to shore power in storage. At the house when getting ready to travel, I use this. I plug it into the 'always hot' accessory port in the lower center console using the accessory plug provided with the charger.
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