Removing DEF system

[hoosierrun]

I would think that the potential fines for removing this system would discourage anybody from doing this.

Violators are subject to civil penalties up to $45,268 per noncompliant vehicle or engine, $4,527 per tampering event or sale of defeat device, and $45,268 per day for reporting and recordkeeping violations. 42 U.S.C. § 7524; 40 C.F.R. § 19.4. The EPA often uses the Mobile Source Civil Penalty Policy to arrive at an appropriate civil penalty for vehicle and engine enforcement settlements.

In this day and age, big brother is watching

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/clea...se-resolutions

[Old Crows]

Originally Posted by jslindner

There are some very repressed and conflicted people in the world. Don't take the crabby posts personally. There are reasons to consider ditching the DEF system, not the least of which is the constant and relatively expensive baby-sitting it requires. It is worth noting that those in the know consider the pre-2008 Sprinter diesels to have been indomitable workhorses and consider the epa-required changes in 2008 to have been a complicated, expensive and inefficient insult to a reliable and economical machine. We own a 2016 Sprinter chassis (Renegade Vienna house), with 1800 miles on it. Before we had 800 miles on the engine (and we were about 500 miles into our maiden sojourn), we had to replace the entire EGR/DEF system for a cost of about $2500 and three days delay. In my own research, the EGR/DEF system is about the _only_ thing that gives Sprinter owners trouble with any degree of regularity. it seems to be an extremely reliable power plant in all other regards. I'll attach an article that explains the DEF issues in more detail.

Long story short? Don't sweat ignorant trolls. You brought interesting and relevant information to the conversation. Thank you.

see: <https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/fatal-flaw-mercedes-benz-sprinters-tom-robertson>

Why was that repair NOT covered under the 100K/10year warranty??????????

[birddog2you]

[emoji33] Don't remove that tag on your pillow either. They are watching you. LoL

[egwilly]

Where we live smog checks are required. Removing or tampering with any smog device would cause me to fail the test. Then big $$ to make it right. The on-board computers know you tampered, and record the settings.

If you have your heart set on this, all of the smog junk has to come out. Basically the entire exhaust system has to be replaced to do this.

Don't follow why you want to belch black smoke out the back.

[PhoneDude 8289]

All the above are true. If your diesel is 2013 or newer your MPG gain would only be 1 to 2 MPG at best. A very long time to recoup your $2500 cost + fines

[SteveNSue]

I'd wonder about the warranty first and second if there is a whistleblower reward for unlawful tampering of such devices. Your mechanic might be playing both sides. Although he might offer to remove the DEF system it might be a ploy to report the request and get a reward.


Just a thought.....

[MTK46]

For some strange reason the DEF system gets a bad rap. Had it on my 2012 F-350 & put 60K+ miles mostly towing on it with no DEF problems. DEF usage is very little & cheap compared to diesel.

[nothermark]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

Why was that repair NOT covered under the 100K/10year warranty??????????

The only reason I can think of is that the owner damaged the system by either neglect or trying to defeat it on his own.

The problem I wonder about is who will service the vehicle next. Have a problem on a trip or end up needing a new mechanic at home and you might very well end up with somebody who will drop a dime on the owner instead of fixing the unit.

[Davidrvr]

Originally Posted by egwilly

Where we live smog checks are required. Removing or tampering with any smog device would cause me to fail the test. Then big $$ to make it right. The on-board computers know you tampered, and record the settings.

If you have your heart set on this, all of the smog junk has to come out. Basically the entire exhaust system has to be replaced to do this.

Don't follow why you want to belch black smoke out the back.

I’ve seen the newer coaches belch smoke. It loads up...


Experience .. the ppl above only know what they read..

05 duramax

Removed all the smog stuff on it and installed a programmer with a 500hp tune if you stomped on it yes it would smoke a little and light the tires up. Took the catalytic converter off and punched through the screen which made it a pass through opening.. passed smog without any issues and smog guys said it was very clean .. looked stock with all the parts in place..

Bought a 2012 ram diesel took the def off and installed a programmer not what the HP was but it was fast.. Egr block kit and the mileage went up from about 13 to 18 and on the highway 23-24.. no visible smoke .. ever..

Take the tag off your pillow and flip your mattress as long as you friend doesn’t come over to inspect. You will be fine. You would be surprised how many deleted trucks are on the roads..

Btw my coach, I took the Huge trash can muffler off and replaced with a resonator .. runs better , cooler ..

Oh yeah besides all this epa and smog stuff you guy put a lot of faith into the government .. I guess he IS literally your big brother!!

Might as well sell your stuff to and buy a boat, the attic is metering and global warming will kill you anyways..

Look up the article about climate change before it was global warming, before it was el neneo (sp) or blah blah blah

It’s a 100 year old article that says the same things the nay sayers say now.. with the same ending that if they didn’t fix it ASAP everyone would be dead in 100 years. We guess what, it at that time and we are still kickin.. more auto more planes more trained not boats not ships blah blah

Don’t believe the lies .. it makes you look nieve,.

[Gordon Dewald]

Understand the EPA is backing off on pollution controls.

[docj]

For those who care about the law, Section § 203(a)(3)(A) of the Clean Air Act states that any manufacturer or dealer who violates this section (entitled, Prohibited Acts - Motor Vehicle & Motor Vehicle Engines) shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $37,500 per violation. Any person other than a manufacturer or dealer who violates this section, or any person who violates CAA § 203(a)(3)(B), shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $3,750 per violation.

So owners are treated more leniently than are dealers with respect to tampering with emission controls, but it could still cost you up to $3,750 per incident.

[nothermark]

There was another round of tightened controls that finalized in 2016 or 17. So far they have turned out to be more lawyer driven than science driven.

[Frank Tamez]

I have been in the car business since 1976 and can tell you that I have never heard of a single individual that has EVER gotten in trouble for disabling a smog related item on their personal vehicle... The shop that does the job on the other hand can get in serious trouble. Don't worry about the mechanic telling on you. He should worry about you telling on him.

As for resale value. I attend auctions and buy and sell lots of diesel pickups. The ones that are no longer "Compliant" are simply announced as "Altered emissions" and many of them actually bring more money than the stock ones. Seems there is a huge market for the altered ones and the buyers are willing to pay extra to not have to deal with having it done themselves.

I have to admit that I may or may not have ever actually done one for myself... The diesels I have now may or may not be compliant and I also may or may not have removed the tags on my bed and pillows

[Old Crows]

Originally Posted by Davidrvr

I’ve seen the newer coaches belch smoke. It loads up...


Experience .. the ppl above only know what they read..

05 duramax

Removed all the smog stuff on it and installed a programmer with a 500hp tune if you stomped on it yes it would smoke a little and light the tires up. Took the catalytic converter off and punched through the screen which made it a pass through opening.. passed smog without any issues and smog guys said it was very clean .. looked stock with all the parts in place..

Bought a 2012 ram diesel took the def off and installed a programmer not what the HP was but it was fast.. Egr block kit and the mileage went up from about 13 to 18 and on the highway 23-24.. no visible smoke .. ever..

Take the tag off your pillow and flip your mattress as long as you friend doesn’t come over to inspect. You will be fine. You would be surprised how many deleted trucks are on the roads..

Btw my coach, I took the Huge trash can muffler off and replaced with a resonator .. runs better , cooler ..

Oh yeah besides all this epa and smog stuff you guy put a lot of faith into the government .. I guess he IS literally your big brother!!

Might as well sell your stuff to and buy a boat, the attic is metering and global warming will kill you anyways..

Look up the article about climate change before it was global warming, before it was el neneo (sp) or blah blah blah

It’s a 100 year old article that says the same things the nay sayers say now.. with the same ending that if they didn’t fix it ASAP everyone would be dead in 100 years. We guess what, it at that time and we are still kickin.. more auto more planes more trained not boats not ships blah blah

Don’t believe the lies .. it makes you look nieve,.

Crows are born skeptics ..... And, of course you have the data and independent verifications to back up your claims .... & naturally your modifications produce less pollution, use less fuel and are quieter than the junk designed by professional engineers????