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Old 07-01-2021, 09:08 AM   #15
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I guess you need to define struggle. My 2021 certainly slows down when towing our 3400 lb Equinox. It will slow down to 45+/- mph on relatively steep inclines. So if you run 60-65 mph and slow to 45 pulling hills/mountains it may not struggle but you definitely know the toad is back there. My experience is with a toad that is 1000lbs lighter than yours and I do not max out my GVWR.

Tom
Dropping below the minimum speed limits on any freeway, might be the definition? I've never had to manually downshift to maintain a reasonable pace up hill, on some pretty challenging grades. I just let the ECU/engine/transmission figure it out. I'm more concerned about managing and controlling descents, on those same types of grades, and have been successful, so far.
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Old 07-01-2021, 09:59 AM   #16
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With my 2016 Navion towing a 2004 Wrangler Rubicon (3800 pounds) the most challenging climb was up 9 Mile Canyon going west from Pearsonville, CA up to Kennedy Meadows. It's about 15 miles with about 5,000 feet of climb, max grade near 13%. My speed was down to about 10 mph near the top, transmission temp was showing about 235F on my Scangauge. Climbing the same grade years ago with my '97 F250 and Lance camper and towing the same Jeep performance was similar, no transmission temp gauge on that one but the coolant temp was very close to the red. Other than that climb I've had no problem staying with traffic, at least with truck traffic. I typically pass 18 wheelers going up I-70 approaching the Eisenhower Tunnel from the West, and the cars pass me.
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Old 07-01-2021, 10:59 AM   #17
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With my 2016 Navion towing a 2004 Wrangler Rubicon (3800 pounds) the most challenging climb was up 9 Mile Canyon going west from Pearsonville, CA up to Kennedy Meadows. It's about 15 miles with about 5,000 feet of climb, max grade near 13%. My speed was down to about 10 mph near the top, transmission temp was showing about 235F on my Scangauge. Climbing the same grade years ago with my '97 F250 and Lance camper and towing the same Jeep performance was similar, no transmission temp gauge on that one but the coolant temp was very close to the red. Other than that climb I've had no problem staying with traffic, at least with truck traffic. I typically pass 18 wheelers going up I-70 approaching the Eisenhower Tunnel from the West, and the cars pass me.
That sounds about right for I-70. One time in the Roadtrek, stuck in a huge tailback heading west on I-70, we started that climb at a snail's pace and didn't realize how close we were to the summit, until we saw the tunnel entrance ahead, and the truck chain up areas, and such. The little gasser never broke a sweat. Speed matters?
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Old 07-02-2021, 10:04 AM   #18
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I don't think speed matters but lots of folks equate speed reduction to struggling. I see lots of post where people say you don't even know the toad is back there. Again some folks take this to means there is no performance degradation when towing and this just isn't true. I'm not sure how folks can say you don't know the toad is not back there?

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That sounds about right for I-70. One t ime in
the Roadtrek, stuck in a huge tailback heading west on I-70, we started that climb at a snail's pace and didn't realize how close we were to the summit, until we saw the tunnel entrance ahead, and the truck chain up areas, and such. The little gasser never broke a sweat. Speed matters?
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Old 07-02-2021, 10:40 AM   #19
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I don't think speed matters but lots of folks equate speed reduction to struggling. I see lots of post where people say you don't even know the toad is back there. Again some folks take this to means there is no performance degradation when towing and this just isn't true. I'm not sure how folks can say you don't know the toad is not back there?
I agree! My experience is that when the Sprinter goes over a dip or bump, the Sprinter will lift or lower in the back. This makes the tow vehicle pull or push against the Sprinter.

I certainly could feel my 4,200 lb. toad. The clicking of the tow bar/ tow hitch drove me crazy. Thats why I mentioned getting the tow hitch clamp that alleviates the clanking.

Safe travels,
Mark
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Old 07-02-2021, 10:53 AM   #20
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I don't think speed matters but lots of folks equate speed reduction to struggling. I see lots of post where people say you don't even know the toad is back there. Again some folks take this to means there is no performance degradation when towing and this just isn't true. I'm not sure how folks can say you don't know the toad is not back there?
This was climbing at RPM not much higher than an idle, for most of it. Traffic was forced into one lane westbound, for construction, and no one was in a particular hurry. The semi-rigs were the main slowdown factor for the most part. We didn't even feel like we were climbing, we were moving that slowly. The Chevy 5.7L Vortec wasn't tested at all. On other occasions, with no traffic to impede, we would struggle up hill in that same stretch of grade, running at average freeway speeds. "Speed matters?" was just my conclusion in this specific case. We were not towing, my comments were more anecdotal, as a comparison of how many different factors affect a vehicle's perceived perfomance differently. Speed, weather, towing, and so on, all factor into the equation.
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Old 07-02-2021, 10:56 AM   #21
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I agree! My experience is that when the Sprinter goes over a dip or bump, the Sprinter will lift or lower in the back. This makes the tow vehicle pull or push against the Sprinter.

I certainly could feel my 4,200 lb. toad. The clicking of the tow bar/ tow hitch drove me crazy. Thats why I mentioned getting the tow hitch clamp that alleviates the clanking.

Safe travels,
Mark
They all do that when your tail bounces over a bump. My Sunstar did it, when towing as well. Same toad, different TV. I never towed anything in my Roadtrek.
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Old 07-02-2021, 01:15 PM   #22
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My 2019 24V View (on a 2017) chassis tows our 2019 2 DR Wrangler JK Sahara without complaining, but we're kind of minimalists. I keep a close eye on the coolant and tranny temps, but have never seen any sign of stress. RoadMaster baseplate and RoadMaster Sterling All terrain tow bar work well. I do need to add a 2" drop to bring the tow bar to a more level attitude. I'm right at the maximum of 3" high at the hitch end. The TOAD costs me about 3 mpg when towing at moderate speeds (60 - 65 mph).
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Old 07-06-2021, 08:15 PM   #23
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Forester MBS and Wrangler towed test run

Finished my Roadmaster Falcon All-Terrain tow bar, RM Base Plate, and wiring kit self-install this weekend (good thing it was a 3-day weekend ). The etrailer videos were great. The paper instructions alone would not have cut it, given the need to drill the frame, etc. I also purchased and installed a Blue Ox Patriot 3 brake system. I realized with the brake system I'd need a dedicated 12 volt outlet (RM-9332) and Roadmaster 156-25 Towed Vehicle Charge Line Kit so I placed an order yesterday. Without those add-ons I took it for a short test drive this evening (15 miles, 30 minutes) and everything seemed fine. I can definitely feel the weight but it handled well for a short trip.

Of course, the Jeep battery was down to 12.4v and wouldn't start so I had to jump it when I got home. I'm going to install the outlet on Friday and take it for another test drive to see if it still drains the battery with the ignition key in the off position. The charge line kit wasn't going to arrive in time and is being sent to NJ, and I will install it when we get there on Sunday. But if the battery is still draining, then the DW will have to drive the Jeep separately. We need the RV and Jeep to continue on from NJ to RI the following week.

What are my chances of making it from SC to NJ with just the outlet installed and periodic engine starts at rest stops? Any other tips for our maiden voyage?
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Old 07-07-2021, 08:09 AM   #24
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Congratulations on the install. The RM baseplate installs on the Wranglers aren't all that difficult, but you do need some skills to get it done. I have a couple of questions though. Your Jeep should have already have a 12VDC power outlet that is hot all the time, so I don't understand why you need to install an additional one, unless the current one is used for another accessory. Mine is in the console on my JK. There is even a notch in the side of the console side wall for a cable to exit.

The next question is why are you running with the ignition key in the "On" position. Your car manual should tell you to place the ignition key in the "Off" position. I'd double check that. Neither my 2004 TJ or my 2018 JK run in that mode. Might also be why your battery is running down, but even at 12.4VDC I would think that the engine should have started. I used to tow my TJ all day with an EvenBrake aux brake system and not need to charge my battery at the end of the day.
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Old 07-07-2021, 10:57 AM   #25
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I plugged into the 12V on the dash, which is not hot. The 2016 Jeep is new to me, so I didn't even think to check the 12V in the console. I just plugged into the console outlet and have let the unit sit with it's power on to charge the internal battery. The voltage was 12.54 before doing that, and the Jeep started. It's now at 12.6 two hours later with the Patriot plugged in and ignition off. Although the Jeep is "new" from Carvana, I have noticed a little hesitancy when starting and the battery appears to be original Chrysler equipment and the only date I can find on it says 2013.

So I guess I didn't need the new 12v outlet after all. Learning something new every day.....

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Your Jeep should have already have a 12VDC power outlet that is hot all the time, so I don't understand why you need to install an additional one, unless the current one is used for another accessory. Mine is in the console on my JK. There is even a notch in the side of the console side wall for a cable to exit.

The next question is why are you running with the ignition key in the "On" position. Your car manual should tell you to place the ignition key in the "Off" position. I'd double check that. Neither my 2004 TJ or my 2018 JK run in that mode. Might also be why your battery is running down, but even at 12.4VDC I would think that the engine should have started. I used to tow my TJ all day with an EvenBrake aux brake system and not need to charge my battery at the end of the day.
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Old 07-08-2021, 08:08 AM   #26
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The longer you own a Jeep, the more you learn. If yours didn't come with a manual, as some used vehicles are totally cleaned out by the dealer, I suggest you go online and download one from the manufacturer. It will give you more detailed instructions for towing your Jeep and answer most other questions you may have.

As far as the battery goes, sounds like it is on its last legs. Time for a replacement, if the budget allows. Safe travels.
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Old 07-08-2021, 10:52 PM   #27
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brake system

Is anyone using a mechanical surge brake system for their Toad?

Specifically, I am looking at Ready Brute Elite 2 system. It looks simple, but I would think the cable adjustment would be critical to make it work correctly. Anyone have experience with this type of brake setup and are there other brands that use a similar surge type brake?

https://www.rvautoparts.com/NSA-RB-9...YaAkH3EALw_wcB
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Old 07-10-2021, 08:01 AM   #28
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Haven't heard of anyone using a surge brake for a TOAD, but since there is at least one manufacturer, somebody must. Surge brakes have not enjoyed a good reputation over the years. Only experience I had with them was on big boat trailers. They worked OK until the salt water destroyed the backing plate parts that got submerged. I guess as long as you kept the actuator and cable maintained and free of dirt, they should work. There is the advantage of being less expensive because you do not need a separate supplemental brake controller to buy. I'd do a lot of research and look for testimonials from current users before pulling the trigger. People look for alternatives for a reason.
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