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Old 06-25-2014, 09:01 PM   #169
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Bill. I read a lot of the others owners forums too. The palazzo problems seem to always the same problems over and over again with different owners. With other owners forums I don't see continuing same issues.

I think most of the other manufacturer get their issues resolved and don't continue to let them drag on. I've probably not review all the Owner Forums

Russell
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:55 AM   #170
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Has anyone tried buying a new car and then shortly tried trading it in. You get the same type of results that have been expressed here about the decline in value. When you buy new the only way to get the value out is to drive it out.




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Old 06-26-2014, 10:23 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDRoadking View Post
Has anyone tried buying a new car and then shortly tried trading it in. You get the same type of results that have been expressed here about the decline in value. When you buy new the only way to get the value out is to drive it out.

^^This.

There is a difference between wholesale - dealer cost, prices, purchase prices, factory price, and retail - what the end user pays. That can be 10% to 20%. Factory markup on motorhomes seems to be almost 30% as some discounts seem to be near that amount.

First year depreciation is at least 10%. And that would 10% under wholesale. After all, to re-sell it has to be enough of a savings for an end-buyer to be willing to take the 'used' unit over a 'new' unit. Ten percent is generally enough to convince. But the dealer wants their profit on each sale, so depending on what kind of discount you got new, you may see from 10% to as much as 30% depreciation at the time you drive it off and for the next year.

Annual depreciation is generally about another 10% out to about four or five years depending on what it is and based on supply and demand.

Palazzo buyers that feel they've lost a bunch in depreciation have indeed, it's the nature of things. Don't despair though, it will slow down in the upcoming years. Out at 3-5 years it shouldn't be too bad. By then issues will have gotten worked out and buyers coming along will be unaware of the problems some had with them. But yeah, a 30% depreciation is a heck of a lot more money on a $150K unit than a $30K car. That's why we always laugh when Mercedes and BMW brag about their resale values - any depreciation is still a LOT of money on an expensive car! Or boat, or RV.

I was talking about this with the sales guy at the recent RV show (where we found the Tuscany) and he said the poor people that bought toy-hauler trailers in the past 5 years have gotten just killed. The market dropped out, and the selling prices on new dropped, so some that paid as much as $50K for a trailer maybe sitting at a value today of less than ten grand. OUCH!
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Old 07-11-2014, 04:04 PM   #172
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I too am a new owner of a Palazzo 33.2 - which has spend more time at the shop than I have actually been able to use. Actually, items on your list match mine but I have great deal more.

Yours

1. Overhead Cabinet doors - hinge pulls our of plastic insert. I have had 4 of the 5 come off. One coming completely off and puncturing the dash. The problem is that the side springs which hold the door open are too strong. When trying to close, the springs act as a lever that wedges out the hinge screw plastic inserts. The new design has springs of less tension and a two screw mount on the side. Ask you Thor dealer to get you these new springs (or you can find then in an RV supply store). Remove the plastic hinge inserts and glue.
2. Super slide - don't trust mine either. Make sure the coach is level prior to operating to limit damage
3. Window shades - make sure they are mounted level.
4. Weak floor - same in multiple coaches that I have looked at. Must be a bad support system. Very often see the flooring tear in the same spot.

Mine

1. AC system - traveling in 90 degree plus heat with both ACs ineffective. Eventually they replaced the front (bad compressor) and I found that hte rear AC had been installed without the internal baffle. Warm air return was simply bypassing to the fan discharge and not being cooled.
2. AC Ductwork - when investigating the AC system, found that the air flow through the vents was very low. Found that the two square ducts installed within the ceiling that run the length of the coach did not have the ends capped. Simply blowing the majority of cooling into space and not through the vents.
3. Water leaks - Thor never connected the ice maker to the refrigerator. Pumped several hundred gallons of water into the slide out before we figured it out. ALos had leak from washing machine.
4. Refrigerator fell out - couple of #8 screws into particle board and double sticky tape. Replaced screws with 1/4" lags and used 1/2" sheet metal screws into refrigerator casing.
5. Engine AC controls fell out - very poor glued design that doesn't hold. Eventually had to drill through dash with decorative heads covers.
6. Engine AC dash tubing fell of vents. Not properly installed
7. Access door jams - got locked out and had to crawl through passenger window. Problem is that coach structural strength is in adequate. When it twists, the door jams. Had to file more clearance for the two latch pins.
8. Screen door -bowed so it supposedly fits tighter. Installed a metal handle to pull door closed since the plastic one is too weak for the tension.
9. Inverter compartment cooling fan - sounds like a freight train and is right under the bed
10. Steps rubber treads - too deep for the step so that the front edge is not supported. After a short time, the front edge cracks. Happened on every Palazzo that I have seen. Need to pull off the rubber tread (just glued) and trim about 1/2" off the back edge.
11. Passenger seat -assembled wrong. Had to disassemble and correct
12. Lounge chair - worthless
13. Bedside cabinet driver side - fills with dirt since its open to the engine air filter return compartment. Had to build an internal enclosure so the drawer didn't fill up with dirt.
14. Drawers - very hard to open. Tweaked bt without much effect
15. Unstable handling - installed steering stabilizer which helped some but, lowering air pressure from the factory 110 to 95 psi (Cold) had a great deal more positive effect.
16. Bathroom sink faucet is too short and causes water to flood counter top. Replaced with a much stronger metal unit with about an inch more faucet. Trying to find a replacement for the shower which was also not properly installed at the factory.
17. Air mattresses - worthless. Installed a customer built 4" foam mattress for the drop down bed. Works great but make sure you have a good travel retention system since the bed does not go all the way up due the mattress thickness.

On the upside - the diesel and chassis performed great. Engine exhaust brake is a must.

Overall assessment: with this experience, the Thor factory quality control is non-existent, general workmanship very poor, and the mechanical design department sleeping. There are better coaches for the money. Unfortunately, none have the 33.2 layout. The Coachmen Cross Country 361DL is close. The Winnebago Forza and its sister Itasca unit cost a bit more but have a lot more quality but are nearly 40' long.
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Old 07-11-2014, 06:24 PM   #173
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Palazzo Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by 73Mariner View Post
I too am a new owner of a Palazzo 33.2 - which has spend more time at the shop than I have actually been able to use. Actually, items on your list match mine but I have great deal more.

Yours

1. Overhead Cabinet doors - hinge pulls our of plastic insert. I have had 4 of the 5 come off. One coming completely off and puncturing the dash. The problem is that the side springs which hold the door open are too strong. When trying to close, the springs act as a lever that wedges out the hinge screw plastic inserts. The new design has springs of less tension and a two screw mount on the side. Ask you Thor dealer to get you these new springs (or you can find then in an RV supply store). Remove the plastic hinge inserts and glue.
2. Super slide - don't trust mine either. Make sure the coach is level prior to operating to limit damage
3. Window shades - make sure they are mounted level.
4. Weak floor - same in multiple coaches that I have looked at. Must be a bad support system. Very often see the flooring tear in the same spot.

Mine

1. AC system - traveling in 90 degree plus heat with both ACs ineffective. Eventually they replaced the front (bad compressor) and I found that hte rear AC had been installed without the internal baffle. Warm air return was simply bypassing to the fan discharge and not being cooled.
2. AC Ductwork - when investigating the AC system, found that the air flow through the vents was very low. Found that the two square ducts installed within the ceiling that run the length of the coach did not have the ends capped. Simply blowing the majority of cooling into space and not through the vents.
3. Water leaks - Thor never connected the ice maker to the refrigerator. Pumped several hundred gallons of water into the slide out before we figured it out. ALos had leak from washing machine.
4. Refrigerator fell out - couple of #8 screws into particle board and double sticky tape. Replaced screws with 1/4" lags and used 1/2" sheet metal screws into refrigerator casing.
5. Engine AC controls fell out - very poor glued design that doesn't hold. Eventually had to drill through dash with decorative heads covers.
6. Engine AC dash tubing fell of vents. Not properly installed
7. Access door jams - got locked out and had to crawl through passenger window. Problem is that coach structural strength is in adequate. When it twists, the door jams. Had to file more clearance for the two latch pins.
8. Screen door -bowed so it supposedly fits tighter. Installed a metal handle to pull door closed since the plastic one is too weak for the tension.
9. Inverter compartment cooling fan - sounds like a freight train and is right under the bed
10. Steps rubber treads - too deep for the step so that the front edge is not supported. After a short time, the front edge cracks. Happened on every Palazzo that I have seen. Need to pull off the rubber tread (just glued) and trim about 1/2" off the back edge.
11. Passenger seat -assembled wrong. Had to disassemble and correct
12. Lounge chair - worthless
13. Bedside cabinet driver side - fills with dirt since its open to the engine air filter return compartment. Had to build an internal enclosure so the drawer didn't fill up with dirt.
14. Drawers - very hard to open. Tweaked bt without much effect
15. Unstable handling - installed steering stabilizer which helped some but, lowering air pressure from the factory 110 to 95 psi (Cold) had a great deal more positive effect.
16. Bathroom sink faucet is too short and causes water to flood counter top. Replaced with a much stronger metal unit with about an inch more faucet. Trying to find a replacement for the shower which was also not properly installed at the factory.
17. Air mattresses - worthless. Installed a customer built 4" foam mattress for the drop down bed. Works great but make sure you have a good travel retention system since the bed does not go all the way up due the mattress thickness.

On the upside - the diesel and chassis performed great. Engine exhaust brake is a must.

Overall assessment: with this experience, the Thor factory quality control is non-existent, general workmanship very poor, and the mechanical design department sleeping. There are better coaches for the money. Unfortunately, none have the 33.2 layout. The Coachmen Cross Country 361DL is close. The Winnebago Forza and its sister Itasca unit cost a bit more but have a lot more quality but are nearly 40' long.


Well----don't even know where to start?? I see this is your first post--welcome to IRV2-- very well run forum with lots of information.

As to your Palazzo-- not sure I had all that many issues But for sure not surprised. Sounds like you have been able to modify several things on your own as many of us have. Don't think that's what we paid our $$$ for.

My main issue is with the large slide. Thor continues to patch them without a proper fix. In my opinion.

I have an appointment in the morning with a company to see if we can completely rebuild the large slide with a new system. Will be interesting what someone of knowledge on slides will think of this poorly designed system.

Now as you are new on this site I'm sure someone will not hesitate to tell you that you should not expect anything else. Because you didn't pay $500,000 for your coach.

I heard that many times here and just laugh at how silly that sounds. I don't care if I would of paid $50,000 for my Palazzo. If it is new from the factory the systems should work and work properly!!!

I agree with you. It will be hard to find another coach that rides and drives any better. Fuel milage good too.

As to comparing other brands. The Tiffin allegro Red has a couple models ( 34--& 33 aa)that aren't much more expensive. I was in Red Bay on Wednesday and toured the Tiffin factory. Went to a dealer & attempted to trade. Just still not ready to give the Palazzo away yet. Really a shame how bad a hit we have to take to trade.

Good luck with your issues. I'm sorry that you have been unable to enjoy your coach.

Russell
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Old 07-11-2014, 06:39 PM   #174
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Palazzo Problems

Welcome aboard 73 Mariner. Sorry to hear of your problems. There are some who share those issues and some who have been fortunate to avoid them. Yes, quality control has been a sore point which unfortunately is shared to a greater and lesser extent throughout the industry.

We had a number of extremely frustrating issues with our 33.2 which visits to various dealers failed to solve. After following this group for a while we determined that for us, the best way to get all the problems solved was to take the unit back to the service department in Elkhart. This was not a decision made lightly as it involved traveling 1100 miles with the accompanying expenses and spending 5 nights in Thor's service center parking lot. Having invested the dollars in the purchase of the unit, we felt that it was wise to make a further investment to insure that it worked properly. No, we should not have had to make that decision but it seemed the best way to try to safeguard what was already invested.

Everything on our list was taken care of in a workmanlike manner with excellent solutions to fix problems at hand. Items that were not on our list were also taken care of. If at all possible, we encourage you to try to schedule yourselves into the service center. The techs and service manager did a great job for us and we think they should be able to help you out too.

Keep us all posted and let us know how it goes for you.
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Old 07-12-2014, 05:42 AM   #175
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73Mariner,
Sorry to read of your many problems.
I hope you find information on this forum of value as those of us who have been on it a long time have learned a great deal including how to avoid some problems and some mods to make Palazzo traveling better.
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Old 07-12-2014, 07:48 PM   #176
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Got a minor problem 1400 miles into my big trip. It started raining and after collecting a suitable amount of rain I turned on the washer to help wipe the bugs away. No dice. At the next fuel stop I investigated. The washers had worked and I checked the fluid so I was fearing a pump breakdown. I found a loose line from the washer and thought this would be a quick fix but in the line I found a piece of broken connector. Haven't figured out what would have broken it but the wiper mechanism is suspect.

The other problem was not a Palazzo issue - I was on a very nice smooth stretch of I29. An SUV passed and POW a rock hit the windshield. Did not shatter but I have a bad bit of glass missing. Anyone know what that stuff is called to reinforce windows? Some kind of plastic or polymer. Hopefully they have it at car parts places.

Overall my biggest complaint is the condition of roads. I am surprised the coach has not fallen apart with the huge potholes and fissures it has gone through.
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Old 07-12-2014, 07:56 PM   #177
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You can go to auto zone or NAPA and buy a kit that fixes rock cracks. It will come with the syringe & glue to fix. It is about an hour job and I think 3 stages.

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Old 07-12-2014, 10:44 PM   #178
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Thanks Russell
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Old 07-12-2014, 11:51 PM   #179
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Freightliner finally fixed the pull in the steering. Bought it new in oct. Pulled right from the begining. The coach had several alignments before it went to Gaffney SC. Returned it still pulling to the right said it was normal. After I filed the Florida lemon law paperwork they changed there tune. During mediation I agreed to give them one more try.
I told Freightliner in dec it was not an alignment problem but something machanical. Low and behold after meeting with Thor and Freightliner's lawyers they said they finally fixed it. Steering box preasures were out of sorts. Hmmm... I said that 6 mounths ago.
GM at Camping world was right. They'll put you off for as long as they can hoping you give up complaining. Dont give up.
Now I've got to get Thor to fix the main slide.
Schwintec POS system has stripped another gear.
Main slide has a huge bow in the wall. Doesnt seal.
Fridge ice maker broken and leaks. Had to shut off water.
Back bathroom shower fixture installed upside down. Leaked.
Anyone's roof a/c units loud? We have to yell to hear eachother.
Had to do a hard reset on inverter during last trip. No 110 power.
How about the banging sound in the wall behind drivers seat while you drive? Anyone else cross there fingers when using any of the slides?
I bought the cheapest new (2014) rv I could find and I got the cheapest rv there is.
One positive note... brand new coach. Streaky wiper blades. Thor sent me new ones in the mail no charge. Thanks Thor.
Paul
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Old 07-13-2014, 05:43 AM   #180
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Palazzo Problems

Pmcsurf1--- well I have been one of the biggest outspoken ones on the large slide- If your talking about a bow where the middle at the bottom is out by one inch I think everyone is built like that. When I was at Elkhart getting mine fixed (well patched) I walked across the street and the three new ones going to paint were like that too.

Yesterday I met with a RV Repair facility. Spent some time there hoping to come up with a fix on the rails stripping out. (Mine is jumping a tooth about every other cycle). He believed that to completely redo system will be in the $15,000 range?? To add that third rail would be considerably cheaper.

Now will the third rail fix the problem???? That the 64,000 dollar question. It for sure will make it last longer between breaks.

When the gentleman reviewed mine the first thing he said was "man they are trying to move a lot of weight". Then I showed him the washer & dryer. Lol. He just shook his head.

OK NOW FOR THE BIG STORY FOR ME---

I have been looking to trade this Palazzo since last October!! Have looked several different Coaches-- ALWAYS they were killing me on my trade in value. Then the DW not like this or twice I just not like the drive!!

We were always looking at shorter DP and always new.

After leaving the repair facility I had prearranged to go see my dealer in Elkhart. I was in that area. They knew I would NEVER buy another Thor. They are a Thor dealer so we both decided not to talk Thor. I have bought 3 coaches there. They said they planed to make me happy and sell me a new coach. Happy?? I didn't see that.

Anyway I drove a Forest River 40' Berkshire. Freightliner, cummins, Allison. Just what I like about the Palazzo!! 360 HP. The DW liked the floor plan. Does not drive like a 40' coach. I've driven several. This Berkshire drives very close to the Palazzo. Now we both like it!! Up to the dealer!!

Story continued till tomorrow. ( just couldn't resist). Too long I know

Well my dealer Total Value R V flat stepped up to the plate. They are very aware of my issues. Even know that slide rails are stripped out now and made me a great deal on a 2014 Forest River 40' Berkshire and we BOUGHT it.

I think in my case yesterday all the stars just lined up. My dealer had purchased several of the Berkshire at a deal to him. They are 2014 models. 2015 are out. And the fact I knew that I might spend $15,000 to fix mine and then have a "modified unit". The wife & both finally really liking something ???

Anyway I didn't even bring the Palazzo home. Lol. They are switching satellite, washer, dryer & surge protector. Maybe go get new one mid-week.

Sorry that some of you will miss me ragging on Thor all the time but as to the previous post I think one has to keep the pressure on. That large slide is pushing way too much weight. I used mine a lot and it has been repaired 3 times and is for sure stripped out right now.

Just for information one should research as to what weight that system is designed for!!!! Then add a full refrigerator, some water in the washer, all our crap in the cabinets, a case or two of water under the dinette. Anyway-- very long post

I hope I enjoy the Berkshire and as always I did like the ride & drive of the Palazzo.

Russell
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Old 07-13-2014, 06:16 AM   #181
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Quote:
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Pmcsurf1--- well I have been one of the biggest outspoken ones on the large slide- If your talking about a bow where the middle at the bottom is out by one inch I think everyone is built like that. When I was at Elkhart getting mine fixed (well patched) I walked across the street and the three new ones going to paint were like that too.

Yesterday I met with a RV Repair facility. Spent some time there hoping to come up with a fix on the rails stripping out. (Mine is jumping a tooth about every other cycle). He believed that to completely redo system will be in the $15,000 range?? To add that third rail would be considerably cheaper.

Now will the third rail fix the problem???? That the 64,000 dollar question. It for sure will make it last longer between breaks.

When the gentleman reviewed mine the first thing he said was "man they are trying to move a lot of weight". Then I showed him the washer & dryer. Lol. He just shook his head.

OK NOW FOR THE BIG STORY FOR ME---

I have been looking to trade this Palazzo since last October!! Have looked several different Coaches-- ALWAYS they were killing me on my trade in value. Then the DW not like this or twice I just not like the drive!!

We were always looking at shorter DP and always new.

After leaving the repair facility I had prearranged to go see my dealer in Elkhart. I was in that area. They knew I would NEVER buy another Thor. They are a Thor dealer so we both decided not to talk Thor. I have bought 3 coaches there. They said they planed to make me happy and sell me a new coach. Happy?? I didn't see that.

Anyway I drove a Forest River 40' Berkshire. Freightliner, cummins, Allison. Just what I like about the Palazzo!! 360 HP. The DW liked the floor plan. Does not drive like a 40' coach. I've driven several. This Berkshire drives very close to the Palazzo. Now we both like it!! Up to the dealer!!

Story continued till tomorrow. ( just couldn't resist). Too long I know

Well my dealer Total Value R V flat stepped up to the plate. They are very aware of my issues. Even know that slide rails are stripped out now and made me a great deal on a 2014 Forest River 40' Berkshire and we BOUGHT it.

I think in my case yesterday all the stars just lined up. My dealer had purchased several of the Berkshire at a deal to him. They are 2014 models. 2015 are out. And the fact I knew that I might spend $15,000 to fix mine and then have a "modified unit". The wife & both finally really liking something ???

Anyway I didn't even bring the Palazzo home. Lol. They are switching satellite, washer, dryer & surge protector. Maybe go get new one mid-week.

Sorry that some of you will miss me ragging on Thor all the time but as to the previous post I think one has to keep the pressure on. That large slide is pushing way too much weight. I used mine a lot and it has been repaired 3 times and is for sure stripped out right now.

Just for information one should research as to what weight that system is designed for!!!! Then add a full refrigerator, some water in the washer, all our crap in the cabinets, a case or two of water under the dinette. Anyway-- very long post

I hope I enjoy the Berkshire and as always I did like the ride & drive of the Palazzo.

Russell
Russell,

Congratulations on the new coach! You have been a valuable member of these Palazzo threads and have contributed a great deal to the understanding of some of the Palazzo problems. Please do not abandon us completely and stop by and continue to share your knowledge regarding the Palazzo and let us know how the new coach is doing.

Best of luck to you and the DW and we wish you Safe travels!

Jack
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Old 07-13-2014, 07:16 AM   #182
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Russell,
Best wishes and safe travels in the new coach. You have given us some good info so keep it coming.
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