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Old 12-21-2013, 09:56 AM   #57
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I don't currently own a Thor but had a Mandalay in the past. Great coach. I really like the Plazzo concept and how it's been executed so thus my interest in these threads.

I personally think the RV biz breaks down like this

10 percent of manufacturers just simply suck for lack of a better word. They build crap and everyone knows it. Some of these bottom feeders are now out of business.

10 percent of manufacturers really have it right and build as close to perfection as an RV allows. In my case I can't afford any of these units. Lol.

80 percent of manufacturers.....make 95 percent of the coaches we talk about and see on the road.....the main-streamers if you will.....these are your Thors, Monacos, HRs, Fleetwoods, Tiffins ect. (No way is this an insult just an industry observation )

I really believe within this 80 percent of manufacturers pretty much they are all the same. I'm not trying to start an argument and yes obviously there are some differences that some people prefer over others. However, how many engine manufactures, chassis, trannys, gen, jacks and other systems are really out there for the mainstream manufacturers to use? That's my point.

When it gets down to I could disassemble brand A coach and build pretty much a brand B coach with the same parts. Most folks that have been Rving for awhile understand this IMHO and understand every coach has problems and design deficiencies due to how the industry as a whole operates. The industry could and should do better.

The difficulty is when someone new buy an expensive coach or TT and has the expectation due to its cost it should be perfect. Should it...you bet. Will it.....nope. Sad...yes. Every now and then I find someone who buys a coach and its basically perfect from the start. They are lucky. Very lucky. Most of us 80 per centers have problems and we embrace them as part of the fun and challenge of RVing.

Some people really don't understand what they are getting into when buying a coach. I think its if not all of us were in that mindset with our first coach also. The lifestyle is isn't for everyone and some folks should just rent or at least rent a coach a few times before buying.

The 10 percent at the top......I envy you. The 10 percent at the bottom....sorry you bought below the curve.

The folks really upset at Thor......yes you have a right to be upset......but at the same time at some point the bulb has to go off that this is how the industry works sadly and working out the bugs the first year or two of coach ownership is part of the experience.

Another whole topic is most dealers are horrible and the manufacturers are horrible at managing their dealers. This was the sate of the US car industry in the early to mid 80s as well.

Just my humble opinion.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:08 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutAround View Post
I don't currently own a Thor but had a Mandalay in the past. Great coach. I really like the Plazzo concept and how it's been executed so thus my interest in these threads.

I personally think the RV biz breaks down like this

10 percent of manufacturers just simply suck for lack of a better word. They build crap and everyone knows it. Some of these bottom feeders are now out of business.

10 percent of manufacturers really have it right and build as close to perfection as an RV allows. In my case I can't afford any of these units. Lol.

80 percent of manufacturers.....make 95 percent of the coaches we talk about and see on the road.....the main-streamers if you will.....these are your Thors, Monacos, HRs, Fleetwoods, Tiffins ect. (No way is this an insult just an industry observation )

I really believe within this 80 percent of manufacturers pretty much they are all the same. I'm not trying to start an argument and yes obviously there are some differences that some people prefer over others. However, how many engine manufactures, chassis, trannys, gen, jacks and other systems are really out there for the mainstream manufacturers to use? That's my point.

When it gets down to I could disassemble brand A coach and build pretty much a brand B coach with the same parts. Most folks that have been Rving for awhile understand this IMHO and understand every coach has problems and design deficiencies due to how the industry as a whole operates. The industry could and should do better.

The difficulty is when someone new buy an expensive coach or TT and has the expectation due to its cost it should be perfect. Should it...you bet. Will it.....nope. Sad...yes. Every now and then I find someone who buys a coach and its basically perfect from the start. They are lucky. Very lucky. Most of us 80 per centers have problems and we embrace them as part of the fun and challenge of RVing.

Some people really don't understand what they are getting into when buying a coach. I think its if not all of us were in that mindset with our first coach also. The lifestyle is isn't for everyone and some folks should just rent or at least rent a coach a few times before buying.

The 10 percent at the top......I envy you. The 10 percent at the bottom....sorry you bought below the curve.

The folks really upset at Thor......yes you have a right to be upset......but at the same time at some point the bulb has to go off that this is how the industry works sadly and working out the bugs the first year or two of coach ownership is part of the experience.

Another whole topic is most dealers are horrible and the manufacturers are horrible at managing their dealers. This was the sate of the US car industry in the early to mid 80s as well.

Just my humble opinion.
I am not sure I can agree with 100% of what you have posted. Our Hurricane seems to have been built with the cheapest components available. The Tiffin we are purchasing may not have top of the line everything, but as far as I can tell, most everything is a cut above the Thor.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:15 AM   #59
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...and Tiffen is probably closer to the top of the 80 percent....I wish the best for you...but....I personally can tell you from experience Tiffin is no better than anyone else except for customer service at Red Bay.....Tiffin has nicer furniture ect but its glued and stapled together just like the rest of them....nice coach....still problems. It just how it is.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:16 AM   #60
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Keep your expectations low and you should be fine. Don't plan any long trips until the bugs are worked out. Congrats on the new coach.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #61
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...and Tiffen is probably closer to the top of the 80 percent....I wish the best for you...but....I personally can tell you from experience Tiffin is no better than anyone else except for customer service at Red Bay.....Tiffin has nicer furniture ect but its glued and stapled together just like the rest of them....nice coach....still problems. It just how it is.
Which Tiffin have you owned?
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:32 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by OutAround View Post
I don't currently own a Thor but had a Mandalay in the past. Great coach. I really like the Plazzo concept and how it's been executed so thus my interest in these threads.

I personally think the RV biz breaks down like this

10 percent of manufacturers just simply suck for lack of a better word. They build crap and everyone knows it. Some of these bottom feeders are now out of business.

10 percent of manufacturers really have it right and build as close to perfection as an RV allows. In my case I can't afford any of these units. Lol.

80 percent of manufacturers.....make 95 percent of the coaches we talk about and see on the road.....the main-streamers if you will.....these are your Thors, Monacos, HRs, Fleetwoods, Tiffins ect. (No way is this an insult just an industry observation )

I really believe within this 80 percent of manufacturers pretty much they are all the same. I'm not trying to start an argument and yes obviously there are some differences that some people prefer over others. However, how many engine manufactures, chassis, trannys, gen, jacks and other systems are really out there for the mainstream manufacturers to use? That's my point.

When it gets down to I could disassemble brand A coach and build pretty much a brand B coach with the same parts. Most folks that have been Rving for awhile understand this IMHO and understand every coach has problems and design deficiencies due to how the industry as a whole operates. The industry could and should do better.

The difficulty is when someone new buy an expensive coach or TT and has the expectation due to its cost it should be perfect. Should it...you bet. Will it.....nope. Sad...yes. Every now and then I find someone who buys a coach and its basically perfect from the start. They are lucky. Very lucky. Most of us 80 per centers have problems and we embrace them as part of the fun and challenge of RVing.

Some people really don't understand what they are getting into when buying a coach. I think its if not all of us were in that mindset with our first coach also. The lifestyle is isn't for everyone and some folks should just rent or at least rent a coach a few times before buying.

The 10 percent at the top......I envy you. The 10 percent at the bottom....sorry you bought below the curve.

The folks really upset at Thor......yes you have a right to be upset......but at the same time at some point the bulb has to go off that this is how the industry works sadly and working out the bugs the first year or two of coach ownership is part of the experience.

Another whole topic is most dealers are horribleness/ and the manufacturers are horrible at managing their dealers. This was the sate of the US car industry in the early to mid 80s as well.

Just my humble opinion.
X2...excellent observations and will stated!
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:33 AM   #63
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Which Tiffin have you owned?
Phaeton

The worst prob was the water leaking between the laminated walls around the entry door which rotted the wood in the stair well area. It had all of the other "Freightliner" problems ive had w other Freightliners and some slide issues. Just the usual.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:35 AM   #64
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Phaeton The worst prob was the water leaking between the laminated walls around the entry door which rotted the wood in the stair well area. It had all of the other "Freightliner" problems ive had w other Freightliners and some slide issues. Just the usual.
Oh when its was brand new as in driven off the lot the front suspension was bend and required several components be replaced.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:40 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by OutAround View Post
I don't currently own a Thor but had a Mandalay in the past. Great coach. I really like the Plazzo concept and how it's been executed so thus my interest in these threads. I personally think the RV biz breaks down like this 10 percent of manufacturers just simply suck for lack of a better word. They build crap and everyone knows it. Some of these bottom feeders are now out of business. 10 percent of manufacturers really have it right and build as close to perfection as an RV allows. In my case I can't afford any of these units. Lol. 80 percent of manufacturers.....make 95 percent of the coaches we talk about and see on the road.....the main-streamers if you will.....these are your Thors, Monacos, HRs, Fleetwoods, Tiffins ect. (No way is this an insult just an industry observation ) I really believe within this 80 percent of manufacturers pretty much they are all the same. I'm not trying to start an argument and yes obviously there are some differences that some people prefer over others. However, how many engine manufactures, chassis, trannys, gen, jacks and other systems are really out there for the mainstream manufacturers to use? That's my point. When it gets down to I could disassemble brand A coach and build pretty much a brand B coach with the same parts. Most folks that have been Rving for awhile understand this IMHO and understand every coach has problems and design deficiencies due to how the industry as a whole operates. The industry could and should do better. The difficulty is when someone new buy an expensive coach or TT and has the expectation due to its cost it should be perfect. Should it...you bet. Will it.....nope. Sad...yes. Every now and then I find someone who buys a coach and its basically perfect from the start. They are lucky. Very lucky. Most of us 80 per centers have problems and we embrace them as part of the fun and challenge of RVing. Some people really don't understand what they are getting into when buying a coach. I think its if not all of us were in that mindset with our first coach also. The lifestyle is isn't for everyone and some folks should just rent or at least rent a coach a few times before buying. The 10 percent at the top......I envy you. The 10 percent at the bottom....sorry you bought below the curve. The folks really upset at Thor......yes you have a right to be upset......but at the same time at some point the bulb has to go off that this is how the industry works sadly and working out the bugs the first year or two of coach ownership is part of the experience. Another whole topic is most dealers are horrible and the manufacturers are horrible at managing their dealers. This was the sate of the US car industry in the early to mid 80s as well. Just my humble opinion.
Well said! Thanks
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:45 AM   #66
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Phaeton

The worst prob was the water leaking between the laminated walls around the entry door which rotted the wood in the stair well area. It had all of the other "Freightliner" problems ive had w other Freightliners and some slide issues. Just the usual.
Fortunately I'm not buying a Phaeton.
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:48 AM   #67
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Oh when its was brand new as in driven off the lot the front suspension was bend and required several components be replaced.
So that sounds like a freightliner issue?
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Old 12-21-2013, 10:49 AM   #68
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Fortunately I'm not buying a Phaeton.
Its not that is was a Phaeton or even a Tiffin or Freightliner. Its that its an RV....period. If you expect perfection its not going to happen and you will be dissapointed. The grass is always greener till you own said pasture.

I sincerely hope you have no problems but don't fool yourself. There is very little correlation between how much you spend and having problems in the RVs industry. It just do t work that way. In some sense the more you spend the more complicated the coach the more things to go wrong.

I get the impression you feel like by trading up to a Tiffen you will be free of any issues. Wrong wrong wrong.
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:08 AM   #69
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Its not that is was a Phaeton or even a Tiffin or Freightliner. Its that its an RV....period. If you expect perfection its not going to happen and you will be dissapointed.

I get the impression you feel like by trading up to a Tiffen you will be free of any issues. Wrong wrong wrong.
Well, you would be incorrect. Minor things I can deal with, and can usually fix on my own. It's major flaws I have a problem with. Our Hurricane started giving us a problem on day two of ownership, and has not stopped since.
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:08 AM   #70
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Fortunately I'm not buying a Phaeton.
Interesting comment since I thought the Phaeton is supposedly sp great and costs more than twice a Palazzo. The Allegro Bus looks like more than three times as much so I certainly hope there would be no problems but I expect the excellent comments by "OutAround" are spot on.
I'm sorry for those who are having problems and am keeping my fingers crossed with my Palazzo. It is all I could afford and never expected what I would expect by paying 2 or 3 times as much. Best wishes to those who can.

I hope we can get back to sharing useful information and helping each other.
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