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Old 09-03-2014, 11:47 AM   #29
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I sympathize with those with major problems and keep my fingers crossed every time I do anything with the Palazzo. However it is unfortunately true that other manufacturers also have problems. I personally know someone with a Newmar who is totally disgusted with the problems they have had and lack of support, wants to get rid of it, and will not consider another Newmar.
Last night I was talking to my neighbor who has an Itasca Meridien and has problems with all of his slides at different times.

If I could afford more than a Palazzo I would be looking but would keep in mind that I could be paying a whole lot more and not have any guarantee of not having any problems. Plus, I like the MPG of the Palazzo much better than a 400 HP guzzler.

But if I win the lottery, everything changes!
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:50 AM   #30
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Agree totally!
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:14 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Indianjim View Post
We have had my 36.1 since June 2013. We have 14,000 miles on it. We moved up from a Class C to this DP. We were in love with the rear bath and the full wall slide.

Almost all of my issues were fit and finish quality issues. I'm convinced Thor has no QC department at all.

Two of the most distressing issues were the rear wardrobe that continually flew open while underway and the shower stall door not fitting properly. Thor said they had no fix for the wardrobe. I fixed it. CW made an unsuccessful attempt to fix the shower door. The wall is 5/8" out of plumb and the door could not be adjusted until I removed it and trimmed the aluminum channel.

Our large slide failed after about 36 operations. Fortunately it failed closed. Fixed by Thor, it has given no more problems.

We had a long list of minor items but CW was unresponsive and it was easier to fix them myself. A poor Dealer makes the pain of Thor ownership worse.

The primary disatisfier has been the loud air conditioner. After the Class C, we didn't know any better until we were in a better quality Class A coach and were surprised that you could carry on a normal conversation with the AC running.

At that time we started to identify other Palazzo shortcomings, most of which have been addressed by the blog on "modifications" to the Palazzo. We bought a Magneshade and "flip" shades for the front windows because Thor was too cheap to provide day shades from the factory. Air horns, mudflaps, the list goes on and on. Others have had to install faucets that are actually usable.

Seems like most of the modifications have been to address Palazzo shortcomings or to replace the cheap components that they installed at the Factory.

The transfer switch is under the bed, ours started buzzing loudly and vibrating the bed. No fix from Thor. I isolated it in rubber.

The howling cooling fan in the electrical cabinet is right next to the bedroom window. So is the noise of the water heater when running on propane.

Ever notice how inconveniently the electrical outlets are placed? How about the bathroom light switches? The block heater switch on the 36.1 is in the corner of the rear bath. You only have to climb over the bed to get to it. There are two useless duplex outlets on the bed frame but none on the night stands. I'm pretty sure that no one from Thor Engineering ever actually camped in one of these to evaluate device placement.

The screw that holds the refrigerator closed gets my wife. Look at competitors refrigerators, they don't use a screw.

The Freightliner chassis is great! Great power train and gear selection. I love the engine. Unfortunately Thor spec'd drum brakes to reduce cost and the brakes rust in damp weather and squeal horribly when first applied after overnight or two.

I recognize that the Palazzo was configured to hit a price point. It is an "entry level" DP. I did not realize how many corners were cut to reach that point. Because of the quality issues, we are ready to move up to a higher grade DP. We have learned a great deal about DP's and what to look for in our next unit.

It will not be a Thor product.
Well....... your comments are interesting....... for each $50k of price increase you can expect $2000 dollar increase in interest payments and 15% annual reduction in vehicle value for depreciation($6500 per year) and at added cost for insurance(lets say $100 per year/$50 k) for a total annual increase over what you are now paying of $8600/year /$50k,

To get a rig with disc brakes you will(if buying new) likely be at $280k or more.....probably at least $100k more than you paid for the palazzo.....(but more likely $120k more than you paid for the Palazzo).......plus your fuel mileage will be down to 8mpg. So for a $280k unit you will be paying around $20k more per year than you are now.......plus more for fuel......

So do it.......what's holding you back???

I can live with the screw for the frig and the quality things I have repaired because I don't want to pay more than I am now......not because I can't afford it....but rather because these RV's are a poor investment......and i want into the RV at minimum financial loss.

WRT disc brakes...... they are a costly item.......the drum brakes are very competent and yes sometimes they squeal after lack of use........

As far as the placement of electrical outlets and noise from the AC location of light switches etc...... I saw that before I bought my unit.....didn't you???

BTW....my neighbor at the campground I am now in has a brand new American Eagle......probably list price $575k or more......and his leveling jacks would not retract and his slide got stuck.....so I guess you will need to buy a coach of even greater value if you are looking for no problems.

I am now in California with my 33.1, from Florida, almost 5000 miles since I started several months ago....and my unit has been good....... average 11mpg, several problems I have repaired......but nothing to whine about. I have another 6 weeks before I get home and.....at the end of the day...... I don't want to spend another dollar on a motor home....

I like my Palazzo.....it is not perfect.......Thor is not perfect......but I like what it is for what I spent......

When I was in Rocky Mountain NP several weeks ago I spoke with a fella who had a brand new Dutch Star......he said he sold his Prevost because he didn't like having so much money into an rv for the amount of use he gave it...he said the Dutch Star was ok......nothing great.......

Buy a new unit with disc brakes and all you want ..... what's holding you back??

regards
rich
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:35 AM   #32
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Well said
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:04 AM   #33
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All I did was state the issues that exist with the 36.1 Palazzo. Those issues are REAL and quantitative, not subjective. If everyone is satisfied with those shortcomings, good for you, Thor will never have to improve.

I didn't expect that my critique would be well received. I don't think anyone should take it personally. There does seem to be a pattern among Palazzo Forum participants that they are sensitive to the quality issues and are on the defensive. Why be satisfied with low quality?

I've not changed my view, the Palazzo is chock full of low quality components. It has great fuel mileage but so did a Yugo.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:15 AM   #34
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I agree there are issues, however all new motorhomes have issues. Even the glorious Prevost builders have issues. I think part if the problem is that most new palazzo owners are new to diesel pushers. Not knowing that NEW motorhomes chocked with standard features have issues until they are repaired. I do not see this as a reason to destroy the resale value of a nice coach, which I believe I have. Contact Thor with you issues and quit messing with the dealers .
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:30 AM   #35
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I agree there are issues, however all new motorhomes have issues. Even the glorious Prevost builders have issues. I think part if the problem is that most new palazzo owners are new to diesel pushers. Not knowing that NEW motorhomes chocked with standard features have issues until they are repaired. I do not see this as a reason to destroy the resale value of a nice coach, which I believe I have. Contact Thor with you issues and quit messing with the dealers .
I'm a big fan of quality used. You save a boat load of money, and most major issues are "crossing fingers" worked through already.

Quality used in my mind would be American Coach, Monaco / HR (06-09), Beaver, Country Coach, Tiffin, Newmar DSDP or higher. These are the coaches with "good bones" (did I miss any?)

If I were really wanting new, I would buy a Tiffin Allegro Red over a Thor any day. I think Tiffin has nailed the entry level market with the Red, particularly the 33aa which has a KILLER open floor plan and a king size bed (looks HUGE inside) and the 38 bunk model (can't recall the name - qfa? - great all around coach!)

moreover, if it were me, I would buy a tiffin allegro red 2 years old over a new tiffin red, over a thor. The kinds of problems I keep reading about with the thor are the deal / trip killer kinds - "ain't nobody got time for that!"

If I really really really wanted new, I would buy a Newmar Ventana over the Tiffin Allegro Red. Tag axle in a 40 foot - Yes please!

Although, the 06,07,08 country coach with a tag at 40 or 38 foot is an amazing unit. Even as an 07, they are 200k - but one heck of a GREAT coach!!!
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:33 AM   #36
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I disagree totally about the fact that all other coaches have the same issues over & over.

Read any manufacturing company forum you want. Yes some issues.
NOTHING like the same over & over issues on the Palazzo.

I was just over on another site that I hadn't been on in awhile. Just one after another large slide failing.

So my thought is this. We got what we paid for. A cheap DP. I thought all along that I could live with it and that because it was cheaper I'd take my lumps.

Eventually I said why the heck should I have to go on the road & worry EVERY time I run that slide out if it was going to break again???

At some point cheap is no longer worth it. So for me it is worth a few more $$ to have the piece of mind and a happier DW.

Russell
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:43 AM   #37
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Maybe you all need to talk with my neighbor that owned a new allegro bus and issues he has had
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:43 AM   #38
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I'm a big fan of quality used. You save a boat load of money, and most major issues are "crossing fingers" worked through already.



Quality used in my mind would be American Coach, Monaco / HR (06-09), Beaver, Country Coach, Tiffin, Newmar DSDP or higher. These are the coaches with "good bones" (did I miss any?)



If I were really wanting new, I would buy a Tiffin Allegro Red over a Thor any day. I think Tiffin has nailed the entry level market with the Red, particularly the 33aa which has a KILLER open floor plan and a king size bed (looks HUGE inside) and the 38 bunk model (can't recall the name - qfa? - great all around coach!)



moreover, if it were me, I would buy a tiffin allegro red 2 years old over a new tiffin red, over a thor. The kinds of problems I keep reading about with the thor are the deal / trip killer kinds - "ain't nobody got time for that!"



If I really really really wanted new, I would buy a Newmar Ventana over the Tiffin Allegro Red. Tag axle in a 40 foot - Yes please!



Although, the 06,07,08 country coach with a tag at 40 or 38 foot is an amazing unit. Even as an 07, they are 200k - but one heck of a GREAT coach!!!

Motorhomes for Sale | Country Coach Corporation



The intrigue and the allure's would be in my sights big time.

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Very good response Plasma800. Actually answers the original OP questions well. I've watched other of your post. You have researched several coaches.

I looked hard at the Tiffin 33aa, even went to Red Bay & toured the factory. Just was unable to get deal put together.

Good input

Russell
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:22 AM   #39
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Very good response Plasma800. Actually answers the original OP questions well. I've watched other of your post. You have researched several coaches.

I looked hard at the Tiffin 33aa, even went to Red Bay & toured the factory. Just was unable to get deal put together.

Good input

Russell
Thanks! One thing is for sure, I have researched them all endlessly over the past 9 months just to see if there was anything out there that was a better bang for the buck over my 05 (notice I still have my 05 - currently on a 5000 mile trek that led me to some awesome small mouth bass fishing in the most remote, pristine spot in them great smokey mountains by the way .

Further, I have a buddy who picked up a pristine used Berkshire at a killer sub 100K price (heck sub 90k) from Lazy Days - and he loves it. Not an issue one with it!

One thing I have learned about Lazy Days is this. Every coach they list online, they list WAY higher than it's really worth - but you can negotiate like crazy! I reckon they don't want to "appear" cheap, and if a customer doesn't negotiate hard, they win a boodle. The buddy mentioned above negotiated the price IN HALF just by being fighty about it.

Lesson here is, never be afraid to offer lower money and see what happens. If one sticks to their guns, there are some great deals out there.

I have a whole methodology for dealing with RV salesmen, and I considered writing a post on the subject BUT I haven't as it's fairly pointed (not mean) but pointed. Don't want B-613 on me. However, it totally befuddles and disarms the RV salesperson.

Speaking of all that - What I found moreover was that it was more about the journey than having the perfect floor plan, or the perfect wood color, or that tiled shower. In the end, it's more about get me there safely and with few headaches, get me to places I had only dreamed of seeing - without planes, airports, hotels and expensive drinks in the bar. Get me remote, get me to new cities, get me to new adventures. Get me there with A/C, a fridge, a commode and a shower. Just get me into the adventure. Let's go, let's go!

My wife and I have now clocked about 20,000 miles, have spent almost a total of 6 months on the road over the past year. We've boodocked deep in the desert of arizona where there wasn't a soul around for 10 miles - we've toured the redwood forest, we've watched fireworks over stone mountain, we ridden the tram to the top of the mountain in Albuquerque, we've fished the smokey mountains, we've slept next to the most beautiful river in all of Arkansas, and next we are touring New Jersey, Vermont, Maine, Boston, North and South Carolina.

This is why we own rv's right? No one thinks it fun to own an rv just for the headaches they ALL inherently have. But getting the "bones" right will keep your rig moving instead of in the shop 6 months out of the year. A lot of things inside can be changed, but the bones can't without much and great effort.

Have i mentioned how much I love the 33aa?
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:36 AM   #40
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Some good points from all. Yes, I have noticed that some Palazzo Owners are very defensive about the "quality" of their coach. I don't agree that the short comings of a coach should be excepted as common place. The "all RV's have flaws" mentality is always going to assure that your RV (no matter what make/model) will have problems. We as consumers need to stop excusing poor performance on the part of the RV manufacturer! Would you have open heart surgery from a doctor while thinking "well, you know all doctors make mistakes during surgery"???? "If they leave a scapel inside of me it is just all part of having surgery" NO!! That is NOT the way things should work!! I remember when "Made in the USA" meant something!!! Maybe these RV maufacturers have grown so used to being paid top dollar for less than standard work that they just don't care anymore. Mainly because they KNOW we the consumers will excuse it!! How many of you still leave a big tip for a waitress that served you incorrect orders of cold food?? How will manufacturers ever change their practices if the consumers don't speak up?? ANY MANUFACTURERS of any coach/TT/pop-up etc!!!
As for Lazy Days: we have tried 3 times to deal with them and each time they have quoted full MSRP sales price for their unit while cutting the trade in value of our unit by 8-10 thousand dollars!! The resale value on an RV (of any kind) drops fast enough, we don't need dealerships adding insult to injury!! Yes, I know a RV is a want not a need but that should not excuse bad behavior by a dealership. Any dealership for ANY RV!!!
As far as the Palazzo: We like the size and the fuel mileage. No we don't like the slide failures we have had and no we didn't like the way the dealership "fixed" it. But, yes we did like the way Thor took care of us for repairs and getting our coach to Elkhart for those repairs.
Yes, the breakage on an RV sucks! (On ANY RV it sucks!) But without the Palazzo and without those breaks and the IRV2 forum, Rick and I would have missed out on meeting some really great people. (Yes, I am even grateful for some of the mean people we have met along the way!).
Whichever RV you buy, you are better off if you have a good support system of other owners of the same RV you own. You are also better off if the Manufacturer of the RV you buy gives a darn about your RV and the other ones they build!!
My best advice would be go to a campground or RV rally and talk to RV owners (of ALL makes and models). And listen to ALL of the opinions, not just the nice ones!!
Happy Hunting!!
Karen
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:49 PM   #41
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Some good points from all. Yes, I have noticed that some Palazzo Owners are very defensive about the "quality" of their coach. I don't agree that the short comings of a coach should be excepted as common place. The "all RV's have flaws" mentality is always going to assure that your RV (no matter what make/model) will have problems. We as consumers need to stop excusing poor performance on the part of the RV manufacturer! Would you have open heart surgery from a doctor while thinking "well, you know all doctors make mistakes during surgery"???? "If they leave a scapel inside of me it is just all part of having surgery" NO!! That is NOT the way things should work!! I remember when "Made in the USA" meant something!!! Maybe these RV maufacturers have grown so used to being paid top dollar for less than standard work that they just don't care anymore. Mainly because they KNOW we the consumers will excuse it!! How many of you still leave a big tip for a waitress that served you incorrect orders of cold food?? How will manufacturers ever change their practices if the consumers don't speak up?? ANY MANUFACTURERS of any coach/TT/pop-up etc!!!
As for Lazy Days: we have tried 3 times to deal with them and each time they have quoted full MSRP sales price for their unit while cutting the trade in value of our unit by 8-10 thousand dollars!! The resale value on an RV (of any kind) drops fast enough, we don't need dealerships adding insult to injury!! Yes, I know a RV is a want not a need but that should not excuse bad behavior by a dealership. Any dealership for ANY RV!!!
As far as the Palazzo: We like the size and the fuel mileage. No we don't like the slide failures we have had and no we didn't like the way the dealership "fixed" it. But, yes we did like the way Thor took care of us for repairs and getting our coach to Elkhart for those repairs.
Yes, the breakage on an RV sucks! (On ANY RV it sucks!) But without the Palazzo and without those breaks and the IRV2 forum, Rick and I would have missed out on meeting some really great people. (Yes, I am even grateful for some of the mean people we have met along the way!).
Whichever RV you buy, you are better off if you have a good support system of other owners of the same RV you own. You are also better off if the Manufacturer of the RV you buy gives a darn about your RV and the other ones they build!!
My best advice would be go to a campground or RV rally and talk to RV owners (of ALL makes and models). And listen to ALL of the opinions, not just the nice ones!!
Happy Hunting!!
Karen
Hear Hear!!
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:56 PM   #42
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I disagree totally about the fact that all other coaches have the same issues over & over.

Read any manufacturing company forum you want. Yes some issues.
NOTHING like the same over & over issues on the Palazzo.

I was just over on another site that I hadn't been on in awhile. Just one after another large slide failing.

So my thought is this. We got what we paid for. A cheap DP. I thought all along that I could live with it and that because it was cheaper I'd take my lumps.

Eventually I said why the heck should I have to go on the road & worry EVERY time I run that slide out if it was going to break again???

At some point cheap is no longer worth it. So for me it is worth a few more $$ to have the piece of mind and a happier DW.

Russell
If I may ask, what is the other site you are referencing with the multiple large slide failures? I search for slide failures often enough and haven't come across many recent individual instances. Thanks.
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