Another case of black mold in an Outdoors RV

[bneukam]

Originally Posted by ColoradoRFL

Our Outdoors RV doesn’t appear to have any luan or “seal barrier” in the attic. The top of the attic is plywood (looks like pine) along with insulation that has a bubbly plastic side which is placed against the plywood.



The attic areas are not sealed from the living area but there is insulation between the two making the attic much colder.



As I mentioned before, warm air traveling up into that attic space drops water vapors as it gets colder since humidity levels they are taking about are relative to the temperature of the air.



Here is a picture of the plywood not luan.

Correct, your photo is of the underside roof decking, that is plywood. The Luan I am referring to is the interior side that holds the insulation up. Does it have a vapor retarder? Possibly a tar backing, or a plastic coating. Stopping water vapor from entering the roof cavity at the conditioned side is key

[dkkarl]

https://www.adventurousway.com/blog/...ng-our-rv-roof

[bneukam]

While I agree that Matt’s trailer has a significant amount of mold, that ORV hasn’t seen before. But mold in this attic space is not abnormal in this type of construction. You’ll see more cases like TT250rds’s unit above. I’ve also seen it in a friends unit that was used in below freezing temps, and was NOT from water leaks.

Would have liked to see photos of the bubble wrap that sits next to the sheathing for evidence of water leaks.

We all know the largest gaps leading into the attic space is around these vents, and sealing them up with the bubble wrap was a good idea. Not saying there wasn’t leaks from the top, but mold will easily go through a sheet of plywood thus the evidence on top.

If you have this type of construction inspect yearly for mold, and be very cautious of the water vapor inside the trailer.

[ColoradoRFL]

Originally Posted by bneukam

Correct, your photo is of the underside roof decking, that is plywood. The Luan I am referring to is the interior side that holds the insulation up. Does it have a vapor retarder? Possibly a tar backing, or a plastic coating. Stopping water vapor from entering the roof cavity at the conditioned side is key

I don’t see any type of barrier preventing air from entering the roof cavity.

[bneukam]

Originally Posted by TT_TR250RDS

Here is a 2019 ORV 25RDS. Used at least twice a month all year long by 2 people and a dog, but nothing out of the ordinary. Located in the PNW, running a dehumidifier for a 2000sqft house all the time to keep humidity down at 40%. 3 maxx air vents (living room area, bathroom, bedroom). The trailer is never warmer than 60 degrees when we camp in the winter months.


I just found this issue because the bedroom maxx air vent control board went and I needed to replace it. I just happen to take a look under the silver bubble insulation above the pink fiber insulation out of curiosity. Needless to say, my heart sunk to my stomach when I saw it. (Sorry not the best pictures, but this is around the exhaust vent in the bedroom).

I am not even sure what to do at this point in time. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

So has ORV responded to you with a solution for your trailer?

Just saw Matt’s video on his repair, and it clearly shows mold working from the roof fan over to the roof vent. These vents could be doing more harm than good as they are creating a draw into the attic space. Warm moist air will travel to the cold drier air with the path of least resistance. He did have them seal up the pathway from these fans into the attic, as he knows the true cause.

Matt also blamed it on water leaks which may have contributed, but looking at how widespread the mold was, and where it was concentrated, this is clearly water vapor damage.

Obviously they had to blame it on something besides construction methods as the liability would be too great.

[Cumminsfan]

I doubt ORV has anything to worry about. Almost all TT's and 5er's roofs are made the same way. If ORV gets punished then 90% of owners with TT's and 5er's are in trouble as well.

People are still flocking to dealer lots in search of ORV products. Look at all the other junk being built thats ranted about on the net and yet dealers can't get enough of them. A good salesman will be able to sell ORV's all day long.

I see this going the way of the faded cap problem back in 2014-16 or so before manufactures quit using dark brown and grey front caps.

Unless it was caught under warranty then manufactures just ignored the complaints and changed cap colors. Leaving owners out to dry.

[bneukam]

True, but ORV claims theirs is for use in extreme 4 seasons use. Now we all know otherwise. At least not in constant sub freezing temps.

Just wondering if they are going to fix his unit like they did for Matt.

This is a health hazard after all. You would at least think they would have to notify all their current owners.

[Cumminsfan]

So we have 2-3 cases of internet black mold vs 1000's of sold units. How would ORV breakdown the type of use per unit?
ORV's never going to say it's their fault. If they did then there's 100's of 1000's of RV's with the same issue. Probably millions.
Why should ORV be the one to take the fall?

Maybe it helps if you're a blogger vs just a camper.

[bneukam]

Like I’ve mentioned many times, we have close friends have this same issue back in 2017, on their ORV. It’s devastating when you find it. You would probably feel different if it was in yours.

[TT_TR250RDS]

Originally Posted by bneukam

So has ORV responded to you with a solution for your trailer?

Just saw Matt’s video on his repair, and it clearly shows mold working from the roof fan over to the roof vent. These vents could be doing more harm than good as they are creating a draw into the attic space. Warm moist air will travel to the cold drier air with the path of least resistance. He did have them seal up the pathway from these fans into the attic, as he knows the true cause.

Matt also blamed it on water leaks which may have contributed but looking at how widespread the mold was, and where it was concentrated, this is clearly water vapor damage.

Obviously, they had to blame it on something besides construction methods as the liability would be too great.

I saw Matt's video and it is for sure 90% from water vapor. I think it is a very good point to note for everyone that camps in winter that the vents need to be exhausting but the vents should be completely airtight from the rest of the roof. I would hope ORV would see this issue and start completely boxing in the roof vent area then following up with a vapor barrier like a Tyvex nothing fancy. However, I do not see them doing this.

To answer your question, no ORV did not have anything to offer me. I am out of warranty. Additionally. I have already had my trailer back to ORV within the first year of purchasing it because the roof had issues. They did replace the entire roof but they heaved no advice to me that camping in near-freezing or under freezing temps poses a huge threat to the life of the camper.

Again, ORV is running a business. They market a "4 seasons trailer" but they do not educate their customers on how to 4 season camp in the trailer. The trailer has flaws just like every other trailer out there. If you are out there camping in these trailers for 1-3 week stretches in freezing temps, you are going to have issues. Otherwise, if you just use it here and there and usually in fair weather. The trailer will be fine. After all, it is just a recreational vehicle and they only expect their customers to use it here and there.

[bneukam]

Thanks for the update, and your probably still trying to decide what to do. Our friends treated the mold from the inside by cutting around cabinets, and punching the staples through the luan ceiling. He caught his early, as he saw a brown water stain on the lip of the fan trim. He was parked under a open end of a monitor barn, so he knew something was wrong. Found the mold, and a light layer of frost.

He took pictures during the process, and sold it with a disclosure to the new buyer. He went back to a Country Coach DP, that is fully laminated with foam board.

From your photos it also looks like you found it early. Don’t know how widespread it is, but not sure I would have the whole roof removed.

You are correct that these units need to come with a warning about the consequences of use during cold temps, or extended use. Even if they sealed up the fans, which cuts off the path of least resistance, doesn’t mean it will transfer the problem to a new area.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by bneukam

Like I’ve mentioned many times, we have close friends have this same issue back in 2017, on their ORV. It’s devastating when you find it. You would probably feel different if it was in yours.

Trust me I'm not on the ORV band wagon and I don't drink the kool aid. I've had enough issues to not want another ORV.
Maybe I already have some black mold and don't know it. Doubt it unless I have a leak. I stop camping in Oct and start back up in March/April. Mild temps most of the time. But as we've seen with RV's, nothings out of the question concerning reliability.
My point was that the majority of RV trailers built are built like ORV's are.
ORV just grabbed the 4 Season title and ran with it. And it's coming back to bite em.
Should ORV help owners with black mold out of warranty? Sadly no because the conditions and owner use are to variable. I doubt any MFG would repair a black mold issue out of warranty.

ORV does not warrant for full time use.

Per owners manual.

This Limited Warranty and the obligations stated herein shall not apply to:
1. RVs used for business, rental, commercial, or disaster relief purposes other than recreational travel and family camping.

Recreational travel and family camping is not full timing.


YMMV, buyer beware.

[bneukam]

Owners are lead to believe they can use theirs even on a recreational basis in cold temps with no consequences. Like in TT250rds case it was used a couple extended weekends each month. Sounds like our friends got the same response from ORV as he did.

I’ve owned a Truck camper, Class C, DP, and now my current trailer and they have all been laminated foam board roof. Manufacturers will build both laminated, and Truss design depending on model.

Our Class C, and Truck camper, was used in Alaska in extreme cold temps for many years.

I do believe this is more problematic than what we’ve seen, or heard on RV sites. How many actually dig into their attics to inspect. How many would actually go out and post it. Very few owners are even on forums like this.

ORV builds a very nice trailer, I’ve camped in one, and I would agree it’s the best livable trailer out there. It wouldn’t take much to add a vapor barrier, and seal up the attic during construction.

[Rolle]

Originally Posted by bneukam

Thanks for the update, and your probably still trying to decide what to do. Our friends treated the mold from the inside by cutting around cabinets, and punching the staples through the luan ceiling. He caught his early, as he saw a brown water stain on the lip of the fan trim. He was parked under a open end of a monitor barn, so he knew something was wrong. Found the mold, and a light layer of frost.

He took pictures during the process, and sold it with a disclosure to the new buyer. He went back to a Country Coach DP, that is fully laminated with foam board.

From your photos it also looks like you found it early. Don’t know how widespread it is, but not sure I would have the whole roof removed.

You are correct that these units need to come with a warning about the consequences of use during cold temps, or extended use. Even if they sealed up the fans, which cuts off the path of least resistance, doesn’t mean it will transfer the problem to a new area.

I agree. Not only do they put a sticker on the trailer saying it is ”4 Season”
In this interview they confirm it will be no problem. Also have in mind that the maxair fans are not standard. So they can not be considered to be a requirement for the 4 season sticker.
https://youtu.be/yUha_rk1Oss