Another case of black mold in an Outdoors RV

[ColoradoRFL]

The well known European couple with the YouTube Channel Adventurous Way living full time in their Outdoors RV discovered mold on their ceiling last week.

Here is the video https://youtu.be/XLX3ZR2AoLs

That is now the second case I have seen documented where an Outdoors RV trailer had water leaking from a ceiling light they removed only to find the attic ceiling covered in black mold.

Minimally, I suppose Outdoors RV will announce the warranty doesn’t cover full time living in their trailers. The manufacturer has been fairly transparent over the fact they own their products and design them for use in the Oregon woods and not necessarily the more extreme conditions found in the Canadian Rockies or East Coast of Main.

Is anyone else following these problems? Any thoughts on mitigation? We haven’t looked yet but have certainly been running our heater full-time given the Texas storms currently impacting our area.

[Dave Pelletier]

I assume you read the other thread below?

....I'm not going to get into another full blown discussion on this but I've been in contact with Matt and I have some ideas which I'll revisit once we've heard the official response from ORV.

While I doubt very much that I'd ever have an issue given my usage (weekend/extended weekends only, spring to fall, dry climate, etc. ) I'm always interested in "bulletproofing" or building a better mousetrap. I think the vapor barrier and "attic" ventilation are potential areas of improvement. ....waiting and watching.

Are you a member of the ORV facebook group? There is discussion on the issue there that doesn't tend to devolve into brand bashing.

Dave

[bneukam]

This is not only just an ORV issue, but has been a problem in other brands with this same type of construction.

If you have used your trailer with this type of construction (fiberglass batten) in the roof during consistent temps below freezing, be sure to inspect for mold on the bottom of the roof decking.

Never purchase a used unit with this type of construction without a mold inspection.

[phoneguy99]

Read your manual, these and other trailers are NOT designed for long term living.


"EFFECTS OF LONG−TERM OCCUPANCY
Condensation
Outdoors RV Manufacturing has designed your travel trailer for recreational use and short-term
occupancy. It is not designed or intended to be used as a permanent residence. If you occupy your RV
for extended periods of time, be prepared to deal with condensation and humid conditions that may be
encountered. The relatively small space and tight, compact construction of modern recreational vehicles
means that normal living activities of even a few occupants will lead to rapid moisture saturation of the
air contained in your RV especially in cold weather.
 Do not place propane cylinders inside the vehicle. Propane cylinders
are equipped with safety devices that relieve excessive pressure by
discharging propane to the atmosphere. Propane gas is highly
flammable and can lead to a fire or explosion and result in death or
serious injury.
 Urethane foam is flammable! Do not expose urethane foams to open
flames or any other direct or indirect high temperature sources of
ignition such as burning operations, welding, burning cigarettes,
space heater, or unprotected electric light bulbs. Once ignited
urethane foams will burn rapidly, releasing great heat and
consuming oxygen very quickly. In an enclosed space the resulting
deficiency of oxygen will present a danger of suffocation to the
occupants. Hazardous gases released by the burning foam can be
incapacitating or fatal to human beings in sufficient quantities.
 Explosive fuel clouds maybe present at fuel filling stations. Before
refueling, (gasoline, diesel fuel or propane) be sure to turn off all
pilot flames and appliances in your RV. Turning off the propane at
the tank is insufficient. Pilot-less appliances may still spark, or pilot
flames may not extinguish immediately.
 Portable fuel burning equipment, including wood and charcoal grills
and stoves shall not be used inside this Recreational Vehicle. The use
of this equipment inside this Recreational Vehicle may cause fires or
asphyxiation.
 Your RV is not designed to be used as permanent housing. Use of
this product for long term or permanent occupancy may lead to
premature deterioration of structure, interior finishes, fabrics,
carpeting, and drapes. Damage or deterioration as a result of longterm
occupancy may not be considered normal and may under the
terms of the warranty constitute misuse, abuse, or neglect, and may
therefore reduce your warranty protection."

[ColoradoRFL]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

I assume you read the other thread below?

....I'm not going to get into another full blown discussion on this but I've been in contact with Matt and I have some ideas which I'll revisit once we've heard the official response from ORV.

While I doubt very much that I'd ever have an issue given my usage (weekend/extended weekends only, spring to fall, dry climate, etc. ) I'm always interested in "bulletproofing" or building a better mousetrap. I think the vapor barrier and "attic" ventilation are potential areas of improvement. ....waiting and watching.

Are you a member of the ORV facebook group? There is discussion on the issue there that doesn't tend to devolve into brand bashing.

Dave

Dave,

I am not on Facebook but that is good to know.

It also seems to me the more modifications one makes to a trailer the less enforceable a warranty becomes as with any product. They put batteries under the bed, added insulation to the front living area, loaded the roof with lots of solar panels and even skirted the outside while at their current location.

Since they don’t appear to have any work obligations, it seems odd to me they have moved into a hotel and are staying in Vermont. If that were me, I would be heading to Oregon right-away to negotiate some kind of fix with the factory.

Given the free publicity, factory tours and interviews with senior company executives they posted supporting Outdoors RV I can imagine the manufacturer will try and work-out some agreement with them to fix the problem even if the costs are shared regardless.

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by ColoradoRFL

Dave,

I am not on Facebook but that is good to know.

It also seems to me the more modifications one makes to a trailer the less enforceable a warranty becomes as with any product. They put batteries under the bed, added insulation to the front living area, loaded the roof with lots of solar panels and even skirted the outside while at their current location.

Since they don’t appear to have any work obligations, it seems odd to me they have moved into a hotel and are staying in Vermont. If that were me, I would be heading to Oregon right-away to negotiate some kind of fix with the factory.

Given the free publicity, factory tours and interviews with senior company executives they posted supporting Outdoors RV I can imagine the manufacturer will try and work-out some agreement with them to fix the problem even if the costs are shared regardless.

8" of snow on the ground in Vermont. I would wait till this cold spell has passed before trying to head west. They'd be traveling on the upper part of the US all the way. Thats the coldest part.

[Cumminsfan]

phoneguy99 nailed it. Thats why most probably don't have mold issues. I would venture that over 95% of all RV's sold are for recreational use. Trying to use one in super cold weather just brings on another set of issues. ORV clearly intends for them to be used all year, but only in a recreational manor. Going out for a week once a year in 20*-40* weather won't or shouldn't cause mold to grow. And if it does it would seem like it would take many many years to have an issue like the UK couple.

[propchef]

Who defines “recreational” and where is the line? As noted they are clearly marketed to highlight cold weather abilities with the pinned and heated underbelly. It’s a “4 Season” trailer according to the manufacturer. Is three weeks each winter ok but four no? What if it’s 4 people who always cook inside as opposed to the couple that mostly cooks outside? How much is too much? The warranty already specifically excludes mold damage so I would assume buyer beware unless one can prove a manufacturer defect.

[CNPH]

Propchef- Agree with you. We have been Full time since Sept but it’s not our intention to continue it. We sold our house and traveled a bit and are now stationary where we will be buying a home (hopefully) at some point. Other then the current crazy week we’ve had in DFW we don’t expect to be in single digits temps or even teens except by mistake.

I have corresponded with Matt about their issue and it had me wonder. I took the fan casings off and looked, thankfully nothing appears out of ordinary in the attic.

We aren’t cooks so we eat out a lot or use micro for the most part, yes we have used oven but pretty sparingly. Never use shower without fan on sucking out any steam. We also use a dehumidifier regularly, although it’s not as big a unit as what Matt has been using.

I guess the questions is how much use or even cooking is too much?

My other half has some health concerns and mold would not be good.

[TT_TR250RDS]

Originally Posted by bneukam

This is not only just an ORV issue, but has been a problem in other brands with this same type of construction.

If you have used your trailer with this type of construction (fiberglass batten) in the roof during consistent temps below freezing, be sure to inspect for mold on the bottom of the roof decking.

Never purchase a used unit with this type of construction without a mold inspection.

What other type of roof structure would be better?

[propchef]

Originally Posted by TT_TR250RDS

What other type of roof structure would be better?

Better? Or just different? The Lance has a solid foam core roof without any voids or area where moist air can be trapped. The downside is that it's a mostly flat roof (new ones are slightly crowned) that can pool water.

[bneukam]

Vacuum bonded, or laminated foam board roof is a continuous thermal block.
No attic space, no air gaps, and no vents required. All the RV’s that I have owned (class A & C, 5er, TT, Truck camper) have all been insulated in the roof using foam board construction. Batten insulation needs protection from water vapor. Gaps in its installation can also cause issues, because you now have R-0.

Over on the Lance forum their is a full timer that lives in Alaska. Don’t know for how long, and quite possibly he is doing damage that he is not aware of yet. But pooling water on the roof is no longer an issue on newer units.

Artic Fox started 2 years ago vacuum bonding the roof on their truck campers. It has 5” of rigid foam board. Watching to see if they bring this over into their TT lineup.

[egwilly]

It would be interesting to see if laminated foam board would work on a trailer with over 240 sq feet of area. Since ORV builds curved roofs, they would have to give up one of their big selling points. Not sure if foam board would hold up under the same conditions as a truck camper.

Never have owned a trailer or motorhome with that construction.

Artic Fox (Northwood) and ORV are sister companies. Very much the same shops and equipment. I am sure they both use the same suppliers.

[bneukam]

Originally Posted by egwilly

It would be interesting to see if laminated foam board would work on a trailer with over 240 sq feet of area. Since ORV builds curved roofs, they would have to give up one of their big selling points. Not sure if foam board would hold up under the same conditions as a truck camper.



Never have owned a trailer or motorhome with that construction.



Artic Fox (Northwood) and ORV are sister companies. Very much the same shops and equipment. I am sure they both use the same suppliers.

You can still achieve a curved roof with foam board that is vacuum bonded.

Drove a 1999 Class C (Itasca Spirit) for 17 years and almost 110k miles with a laminated roof. Even though the walls were experiencing delamination the roof was showing no signs of issues. They still have structure within the lamination process. Just like the walls less is needed because the strength it gets when bonded.

This would however increase the cost of the unit.