Community Forums

BuffaloMike · 09-07-2019, 01:37 PM

My two 6V batteries on my Blackstone 270 RKS Titanium went dead last evening after on 5 days dry camping. Thought maybe it was too foggy or shady when there was a little sun for the two 160 solar panels to keep up with our usage. I made sure the panels were clean. I then looked in the batteries and they were dry. I hooked up the truck and ran for an hour to see if it would help, but it still went dead in another hour. Many searches advised charging the battery fully before adding distilled water. I had been taught long ago to put enough in so to just cover the cells. I have been running the 2 generators this morning and it is clearly charging per the panel. I am waiting for the batteries to fully charge and then plan to continue to fill to the proper level.
Ok, now please tell me what I should have done.

P.S. I anticipated that the refrigerator LP would stop with no power. The blinking battery solar panel did keep blinking and code that the battery was either disconnected or completely dead!!

egwilly · 09-07-2019, 03:12 PM

How do you monitor your batteries state of charge? Do you have a Trimetric or similar monitor installed? Was the system working prior to your current trip?

After 5 days, it sounds like the solar was not reaching the batteries at all during all that time.

What is the voltage of each one at this point?

I would start checking for current at each end to see what failed. If you ran your batteries dry, they're probably toast now. Overcharge can do this, but there are signs when that happens.

brulaz · 09-07-2019, 03:19 PM

Completely dry batteries?

Could you be over-charging them?
Have you ever added water before?

Not sure, but the batteries may now be toast.

My solar tries to charge up to ~14.8V daily (depending upon temperature), and I typically need to add water 1-2 times per year.

gpounder · 09-07-2019, 03:39 PM

Put in enough water to cover the cells asap.
You need to know the ratting of the batteries, I will use a common battery and show you the math. A 6 volt GC2 is rated for about 230 amp hours, two in series will give you 12 volts @ 230 amp hours. If actually dead you need to put 230 amp hours plus about 20% (276 amp hours) back into the battery. So if the charger is capable of 100 amps charge and hold it there then it will take 276/100=2.76 hours charging. But if your charger current falls off or stages down during the charge it may take double that time. and certainty more for a small charger.

But likely the batteries are toast. Exposure of the cells will destroy them and certainly damages the part of the cell that was exposed. What may happen is the voltage will come back up during the charge but once you stop charging the voltage will drop showing it's true charge level. But you still have no clue what the capacity is.

The other method to measuring charge is a specific gravity tester. Easy to do and cheap to buy.

Check out my post on batteries. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/why-...ng-458688.html

PS what could you have done? Relying on the fridge to switch was a mistake. Never let a battery go dead which is about 10.5 volts. I argue never let a battery go below 50% for good reason. Monitoring your battery system is a must. Solar is nice but often just a supplement not a replacement for a generator.

Mark_K5LXP · 09-07-2019, 09:02 PM

You should've at least added water to cover the cells before trying to charge. If a portion of the plates were dry then there would be no way for electrolyte to circulate through the separators. Once the batteries were brought up (and I would go through an equalize cycle), let the batteries rest a few hours, then add water to the proper levels in the cells.

How badly the batteries are damaged is anyone's guess. I would do a measured capacity test and see how they perform before I'd pass judgement.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

hawkeye1995 · 09-07-2019, 09:47 PM

I've never heard of charging batteries that were dry before adding water. I have always just added my water and charged the batteries. As stated above, if no water or acid, how is electric going to flow from one plate to another? If anything I think this would allow build up on the plates, then they would never charge. I would put water in, then charge, if damaged beyond repair. IMHO.

ModestMonk · 09-08-2019, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloMike

My two 6V batteries on my Blackstone 270 RKS Titanium went dead last evening after on 5 days dry camping. Thought maybe it was too foggy or shady when there was a little sun for the two 160 solar panels to keep up with our usage. I made sure the panels were clean. I then looked in the batteries and they were dry. I hooked up the truck and ran for an hour to see if it would help, but it still went dead in another hour. Many searches advised charging the battery fully before adding distilled water. I had been taught long ago to put enough in so to just cover the cells. I have been running the 2 generators this morning and it is clearly charging per the panel. I am waiting for the batteries to fully charge and then plan to continue to fill to the proper level.
Ok, now please tell me what I should have done.

P.S. I anticipated that the refrigerator LP would stop with no power. The blinking battery solar panel did keep blinking and code that the battery was either disconnected or completely dead!!

The members have given you some good information, sometimes these moments become a springboard of knowledge. I see you purchased your trailer a year ago, and I remember your interest in an extended warranty, I’m curious if you in fact purchased that?

My Partial State of Charge: Outbacks are made to be discharged down to 30% and operate most efficiently between 30% and 80%. I have a reasonable amount of solar and have survived this last year and a half following my installation of this system without once using shore power or using the genny. I do use batteries to run the refrigerator, but only on a fully charged system on bright sunny days. I still have to monitor it closely for all other draws. After five cloudy, rainy days in northern Newfoundland we managed to draw the batteries down to just about 30%. The sun broke out that next morning or I would’ve had to fire up the genny. Although I have a reasonable amount of solar and battery capacity, and batteries that are very flexible, I still monitor them closely, even when parked at home.

Flooded cell batteries should be restored to 100% every day or ASAP. They have a limited amount of cycles. If you discharge them to 50%, a maximum safe discharge, they will not last as long as they would if you were discharge them to 75% before recharging them. They really need to be monitored closely.

Here is a nicely presented article about RV batteries: HERE

Searching_Ut · 09-08-2019, 09:42 AM

Back in the days when we utilized a lot of flooded lead acids in the military, the training and guidance for a battery that had exposed plates was to immediately put in just enough water to cover the plates, then do a high current charge, let sit for a few hours, (Can't recall the exact time), then top off the water. After this you do a long equalization. After this you would either do a load test on the battery, or a full on capacity test depending on what the battery was being used for.

As others have mentioned, once the plate goes dry, sulfation of a non reversible nature starts taking place, with the extent being somewhat dependent on the age of the battery, and to a larger extent on how long the plates were exposed, and how much the battery was used with exposed plates. How much of the plate was exposed also comes into play, and more than likely, different cells had different amounts exposed, which can result in cell balance issues later on.

Bottom line, you almost certainly did some damage to the batteries by letting the plates go dry. Whether or not they still have acceptable capacity for your needs is something you'll have to determine. Whether it was a lack of servicing, or an issue with your charging system, prevention is the only good option here.

BuffaloMike · 09-09-2019, 01:47 PM

Thanks for all the comments. Follow up today. Yes, the batteries were toast since they would not hold charge with generators used for several hrs.
Pulled into next campground yesterday after attempting to get replacement batteries at battery store. He didn’t know what he was doing to install and then finally got power to the trailer. However, the batteries output was lower than a new battery should be. The really interesting information is that the solar panels were not charging the new batteries!!
We put the dead batteries back in and ran generators last night. Called dealership that originally installed the batteries and found out I needed to replace the batteries with the exact 225 Ah @20hrs to match the solar panels program!!!
New batteries installed just now. All is working. The new batteries are not quite up to full charge so I’m using the generators to bring them up to 4/4 battery indicator.
Thanks again.

BuffaloMike · 09-09-2019, 02:01 PM

Hi. I did add distilled water to cover the panels before attempting the battery charging. They did hold a couple hrs charge the first time but then nothing after next two charging attempts. Yes, they are now replaced with the exact battery specifications so to match the solar panel programming or the panels will not charge the new batteries.
Thanks

ModestMonk · 09-09-2019, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloMike

Hi. I did add distilled water to cover the panels before attempting the battery charging. They did hold a couple hrs charge the first time but then nothing after next two charging attempts. Yes, they are now replaced with the exact battery specifications so to match the solar panel programming or the panels will not charge the new batteries.
Thanks

Solar panel programming means the solar charger settings, yes they need to be accurate. It needs to be set to the type of batteries you are charging. We all will be glad to help make this venture successful. This whole community has helped untold thousands of folks and no question is rebuffed. There are some really super folks here and they will field any and all questions. Two years of reading before joining and then asking relentless questions and interacting with so many threads has made me confident to purchase a trailer with the nearest dealer in Colorado and I am in the most Northern part of New York.

We are all happy to help!

BuffaloMike · 09-10-2019, 11:54 AM

New update on dead batteries. I read in fine details about draining batteries. I think I found the real cause of my dead batteries. Before getting to our campground the trailer safety brake chord had frayed so I needed to replace it. After setting up at my campsite I pulled the safety chord from under the tongue attachment so to compare it to the replacement chord I planned to buy. I didn’t realize that even when unhooked from the tow vehicle the emergency brakes sit there at the campsite activated and drained the batteries to death. It now makes perfect sense that the trailer emergency brakes don’t depend on the tow vehicle to activate the trailer brakes in an emergency detachment since the towing vehicle may become completely detached if enough force snaps the safety chains and pulls out the power line to the tow vehicle. The camper batteries would then be the source of power to the trailer brakes. A lesson learned on how to kill batteries.
Thanks
Thanks

phoneguy99 · 09-10-2019, 02:38 PM

Well that would do it. That's how trailer brakes work if the trailer becomes disconnected from the tow vehicle.

Mark_K5LXP · 09-10-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuffaloMike

the emergency brakes sit there at the campsite activated and drained the batteries to death.

Gee, you'd think there'd be a blinkenlight somewhere to show it was on. Or even the trailer brake lights. A little LED at the status panel would be a simple thing to add.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM