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Old 11-08-2022, 11:11 AM   #1
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Join Date: Oct 2022
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Just another 22FQS Upgrade

Thanks everyone for there upgrade post. They have been very helpful in planing my upgrades. Warning: this is a long post...

I have attached a block diagram of the upgrades I am planning on our new 2023 22FQS Titanium. I do not have the trailer yet, so everything is planed base on post and videos. Please give me your feedback!

I would like to run a conduit like LearningMore, but the required size of my conduit may be to big. LearningMore used 3/4", but the number and size of wires I am running would need 1" or 1-1/4" (I am not sure). Please give me your opinion on the size of wire I am running in the conduit. Am I being too conservative on wire size (too big)? I plan on using liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit.

Link to LearningMore install pictures:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1Q...loak1Sd2xCM213

Inside the conduit will be two 30A A/C runs (6 wires), a 20A A/C run for the Air Con (3 wires), and a CAT5 cable for the multi digital control panel. The Shore/Gen 30A input to the RV will run to the input of the Victron Multi, and then back to the existing A/C dist box 30A input. This will add about 40 feet to the main 30A power input to the RV.

The 20A A/C air conditioning circuit will be disconnected from the existing A/C dist box and be connected to the Aux A/C output on the Victron Multi. This will also add about 40 feet of wire to the circuit, but the first 20 feet will be on the larger 30A main line.

30A would normally use #10 wire resulting in an additional 2.1% voltage drop. So I am showing #8 (1.4% drop) in the block diagram.

20A would normally use #12 wire. The voltage drop here would be:
20 feet of #8: 0.7% (assuming 30A current @ 20')

20 feet of #12: 1.2%
For a total added voltage loss of 1.9% to the Air Con. But, if I use #10 from the multi to the Air Con:
20 feet of #10: 0.7%
For a total added voltage loss of 1.4% drop to the Air Con. The block diagram is currently showing #10.

But now for the good news! Let's assume I am willing to turn on Victron Multi power assist any time Shore/Gen power is present. Now all of the voltage loss up to the input of the Victron Multi should be corrected. Right?

Now the added voltage drop would be:
Using 20' #10 for 30A: 1% drop going to existing A/C dist panel.
Using 20' #12 for 20A: 1.2% drop going to air conditioner.

So now conduit would have 6x #10 wires, 3x #12 wires, and a CAT5.
What size conduit? Not sure this would fit in 3/4" conduit.

This has been a long post. I understand if this is too much time/effort. But thanks for any comments.
Jim
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Old 11-08-2022, 09:43 PM   #2
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I think you can use the same 3/4" conduit. Since I didn't know exact wire types, I tossed some numbers into a conduit fill calculator, and it looks like about 40% fill.

Use real numbers with this: https://www.southwire.com/calculator-conduit
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Old 11-08-2022, 10:43 PM   #3
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Yes, I see what you mean. Thanks for the link.

I am planning on using THHN stranded wire. The OD I see online seems to be 0.161 to 0.164 inches for #10. If I assume 9 wires, I get 34% full on 3/4" conduit. Seems like enough room for adding a CAT5 to the run.


By moving the Air Con from the main A/C box to the Victron Aux A/C output, more "stuff" can be turned on while the Air Con is running. Anyone else using the Aux A/C from the Victron Multi?
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Old 11-09-2022, 09:03 AM   #4
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I am curious as to why you are moving the AirCon to the second AC output on the multi plus? Seems like an unnecessary step as the second AC output only has power when you are connected to shore power input. Or do you only want to run the AC when you are on shore power or gen?
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Old 11-09-2022, 12:30 PM   #5
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I am ok with only running Air Con when connected to Shore/Gen power. For me, too much battery drain to run the Air Con from inverter to be practical.
By moving the power needed for Air Con out of the main 30A A/C dist box, I can now use more appliances while the Air Con is running.

If I turn on the microwave and the RV total current draw exceeds the Shore/Gen current limit, the Multi power assist function of the inverter will use battery to keep everything powered. This will keep the campground 30A breaker from tripping, and the RV 30 amp breaker will not trip because the Air Con is on a different circuit. After I am done with the microwave, the Multi will stop using the battery and resume charging.
Hope that makes sense.
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Old 11-11-2022, 11:06 PM   #6
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Make senses to me, you do whatever you want, haha. I also have the multiplus and am familiar with the power assist feature, use it all the time when on 15 or 20amp shore power. I guess I never had enough draw to trip the breaker. I used the microwave and ac at the same time. Usually if I am concerned i just turn off the ac for the few minutes I am using the microwave. I have 824ah of batteries as well as 840 watts of solar on My 24RKS so never really concerned with running out of battery. I have the CerboGX with touch screen and really watch my power consumption.
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Old 11-12-2022, 11:58 AM   #7
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Wow Firedog. Sounds like a very nice setup. Do you mind if I ask what kind of batteries you used?


We have a toaster oven and coffee pot. Everything seems to be on at the same time in the morning. We trip our breaker on a regular basis.
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Old 11-12-2022, 11:31 PM   #8
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I used SOK batteries 206 ah each. They fit under the bed but i had to lose a drawer. And modify the board for the shelf under the bed a little as the batteries were a little tall . I will try to attach pictures. I also mounted the charge controller and invertor in the passenger side of the passthrough. It worked out for the run to the electric panel in my 24RKS. I also mounted an internal progressive industry ems behind the electrical l with the display mounted under the lip of the "bathroom" sink. I used marine romex for my ac runs. It is weather proof but I protected it with some automotive cable wrap for the short run along the frame to clear the steps for the bedroom door. I was able to come up through the low point drains under the "bathroom" sink and go into the adjacent area behind the electical panel. I think the total ac run is 5ft. each way from the electrical panel area to Multiplus.
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Old 11-13-2022, 12:00 AM   #9
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I figured out the pictures lol. Here are the EMS picís
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Old 11-13-2022, 08:51 PM   #10
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Thanks for the pictures. Given I don't have my RV or electronics yet, it is a big help to see your install. I like your install in the pass-through and how you protect the wires. Just to be sure, the batteries are mounted upright. Right? It is hard for me to tell in the photo.


I think for me to use these batteries, I would need to use at least 3 for the combined current for the multi. Four would be better like in your install. Right now I am leaning toward one Battle Born GC3. I like the multi, but want to spend as few $$ as possible. It is more $/AmpHour, but less $$ spent to get 300Amp for the multi.
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Old 11-13-2022, 09:54 PM   #11
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Yes the batteries are upright. 2x2. I thought about the GC3 batteries but they have a weird form factor to make fit and I would have needed to get 3 for the AH I wanted, that is why I went with SOK I got 4 for about the same price and 14 more AH. I think they rate the GC3 battleborns at 270ah. Check out IreneIronTravels on youtube, They have the same trailer as yours in a titanium and he did a setup with 3 GC3 batteries under the bed and mounted his inventor on the driver side of the passthrough. he actually helped me with my install through some emails back and forth when I had some questions about the wiring under the trailer and the solar connection running to the roof, i replaced the factory one and eliminated about 6 ft of wire and mounted my own junction box on the roof for the solar. I also used Explorists Life (Nate) and watched a ton of his videos, actually bought a bunch of stuff through them as well. wire, lugs, wiring kits and the Lynx shunt and distributor. I Bought the inverter and cerbo from Current Connected and they programmed the Multi for my batteries for me. i plan on boondooking all winter in the desert southwest so i needed to have a good setup.
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Old 11-15-2022, 12:26 PM   #12
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I have been looking at the Victron multi II vs the multi. I would like to install upright near the end of the passthough on a 22FQS. I have seen multi installations that work, but the multi II is 8.5" taller than multi. Does anyone know if the multi II will fit upright?


multi HxWxD
362 x 258 x 218 mm = 20.3 cu l
14.3 x 10.2 x 8.6 inch
multi II
578 x 277 x 148 mm = 23.7 cu l
22.8 x 10.9 x 5.8 inch
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Old 11-17-2022, 08:34 AM   #13
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CAT 5 in Conduit

[QUOTE=JimRV22;6354190]Yes, I see what you mean. Thanks for the link.

I am planning on using THHN stranded wire. The OD I see online seems to be 0.161 to 0.164 inches for #10. If I assume 9 wires, I get 34% full on 3/4" conduit. Seems like enough room for adding a CAT5 to the run.

Hey Jim, It may or may not make any difference, but electricians run CAT5/CAT6 perpendicular to AC power to avoid interference. In other words, they would not run a communication cable parallel to AC power in the same conduit. It's also not code-compliant with the NEC.

Mike
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Old 11-18-2022, 08:56 AM   #14
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Thanks for the heads up. I am not sure where else to run the cat5. It will be used for a Digital Multi Control. Some kind of differential serial over twisted pair I think.
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