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Old 12-08-2024, 09:39 PM   #1
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LiFePO4 - See if I have this right

So my 4 AGM 6-volt batteries are toward the end of their life span and with the holiday prices on lithium batteries being so low I decided I would take the plunge and buy one to put in next spring. Picked up a 230aH 12V battery from Li Time.

https://www.litime.com/products/12v-...ium-rv-battery

Let's see if I have this right.

1) 200 W solar, 140 W portable panel and no inverter planned. No more than a day or two without hookups in the foreseeable future (although I do have a Honda 2200 W generator if we decide to do more time without hookups). So I don't think I need to upgrade the wiring. But maybe a fuse somewhere in the circuitry?

2) My Prog. Dynamics converter has a "switch" for LiFePO4 and I have the upgraded solar controller from Zamp Solar. So I think I am set there.

3) I have a Victron Smart shunt but not sure I will need this since the new battery has Bluetooth and a phone app to monitor the battery.

4) Normally I have left our very heavy batteries on the trailer during the winter (Iowa) without any problems but I suppose I will probably take this battery out to be safe. This battery weighs about the same a one of my AGM's so it won't be so hard on my back doing so. (Reducing my tongue weight was also one of my motivating factors.)

5) Planning on putting it in the same large plastic battery box on the tongue. May put some more ventilation holes in it?

So looks like it's pretty much "Plug-and -Play." Anything I am overlooking?
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Old 12-09-2024, 05:51 AM   #2
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Definitely want a fuse or circuit breaker between battery and trailer. Also need a CB or fuse between the solar controller and battery.
I use something similar to this:
https://www.amazon.com/Erayco-Circui...7&sr=1-14&th=1

I see the battery already has cold weather cutoff protection. With it mounted on trailer tongue, just be aware of that if you do any cold weather camping. If it’s below 32F, it won’t charge.
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Old 12-09-2024, 06:09 AM   #3
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I'd check to be sure all your lights are LED and be judicious on your use of the furnace. If you are camped in sunny weather, you should have your battery fully charged by noon every day. Odds are you already have the fuses (or circuit beakers) oldenavy recommended. Your set up is similar to mine and that's how it works. I don't have the Vectron and my converter is old school so I rely on the solar to top the battery and it does. The only time I need to fire up the generator is on multiple consecutive cloudy days or when parked in the deep woods.
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Old 12-09-2024, 07:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaul View Post

4) Normally I have left our very heavy batteries on the trailer during the winter (Iowa) without any problems but I suppose I will probably take this battery out to be safe. This battery weighs about the same a one of my AGM's so it won't be so hard on my back doing so. (Reducing my tongue weight was also one of my motivating factors.)
If you live within the snowbelt (highlighted in color below) in Iowa, I would take them out to keep them charged in below freezing weather. Where are you going to store and charge them inside? We charge our Lithium batteries for a lot of battery powered handheld tools in our kitchen due to it's too cold for the charging in the garage. The charger has a freezing battery delay and won't charge until the battery is warm. We store the Lithium batteries in our closets and on the floor. Kind of a pain to store them inside our house. I personally wouldn't want to store even much larger Lithium batteries inside our home.

Our garage, pole barn, and sheds all remain below freezing during winter living in the snowbelt. I'd stick with AGM’s with a freezing climate and have no problems storing and charging them wherever in freezing temperatures.

Also, all our tires are 3PMSF winter rated, but then 96.1% of all US tire sales aren't 3PMSF. So probably 96% percent of the folks on this forum don't drive or tow a RV in snow and freezing weather for 6 to 9 months annually. Lithium batteries in a freezing climate are probably of no worry for them either. Don't fall for the Lithium battery hype.
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Old 12-09-2024, 08:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaul View Post
So my 4 AGM 6-volt batteries are toward the end of their life span and with the holiday prices on lithium batteries being so low I decided I would take the plunge and buy one to put in next spring. Picked up a 230aH 12V battery from Li Time.

https://www.litime.com/products/12v-...ium-rv-battery

Let's see if I have this right.

1) 200 W solar, 140 W portable panel and no inverter planned. No more than a day or two without hookups in the foreseeable future (although I do have a Honda 2200 W generator if we decide to do more time without hookups). So I don't think I need to upgrade the wiring. But maybe a fuse somewhere in the circuitry?

2) My Prog. Dynamics converter has a "switch" for LiFePO4 and I have the upgraded solar controller from Zamp Solar. So I think I am set there.

3) I have a Victron Smart shunt but not sure I will need this since the new battery has Bluetooth and a phone app to monitor the battery.

4) Normally I have left our very heavy batteries on the trailer during the winter (Iowa) without any problems but I suppose I will probably take this battery out to be safe. This battery weighs about the same a one of my AGM's so it won't be so hard on my back doing so. (Reducing my tongue weight was also one of my motivating factors.)

5) Planning on putting it in the same large plastic battery box on the tongue. May put some more ventilation holes in it?

So looks like it's pretty much "Plug-and -Play." Anything I am overlooking?
Given where you live (somewhere in Iowa), I would probably take the battery out of the trailer and store it somewhere that is a bit warmer. Short term storage (a month or less) storage for LFP batteries should be safe down to about -4°F. At that temperature, your battery will NOT charge at all, but can discharge if needed. If longer storage times are needed than a month, it's certainly wise to bring it into a warmer area

Your best bet as for storing the battery, is to have it somewhere in the 40% to 70% State of Charge range....(SOC). With most LFP batteries the manufacturer will tell you to NOT store them fully charged...Battleborn is the exception to that, and I totally disagree with them on that standard. So pick a number, say 50% SOC and let the battery sit in a warmer environment for the winter. LFP batteries will normally self discharge at a lower rate than FLA or AGM batteries, to the tune of about 2%/month +/- a bit.

So the take away here is to never try and charge them when the temperature of the battery is around 32°F (your battery has this built in the BMS so it shouldn't happen)...and DO NOT store the battery at a full SOC

A couple of other things....really no need to add ventilation holes to the battery case. A LFP battery does not off gas anything that would be harmful and can even be stored inside of the trailer while using it.

Last, when you finally do get the battery installed and using the Progressive Dynamics charger, check on it to see if it has in fact made the "switch" to LFP battery charging profile. Many of them seem to be having issues with that switchover. They will appear to switch to LFP, then revert back to the FLA profile. That will still charge your LFP battery, just not all the way to 100% SOC. Hope that helps
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Old 12-09-2024, 09:10 AM   #6
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Maybe I'm bias against the new technology of lithium batteries, EV's, and heat pumps working when you really need it in cold temperatures during our late Fall season. It's not even officially winter yet. We purchased our first diesel vehicle in October. Dug a 225 foot electrical wire trench to our pole barn where it's parked during summer to plug in the engine block heater during winter.
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Old 12-09-2024, 10:15 AM   #7
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Most people DON'T need their campers when it's freezing, but still want to know how to take care of them so they work in the spring. Li charging and use around freezing is well covered. I'd like a firm temp or chart or anything of what temp they can take for storage? Lead is easy to find, if Li can't be exposed to -10F in storage, that's a fairly significant issue for some people. Not charging below freezing is minor.


It might be that the specs are all written in Shenzhen and -4C is just the coldest temperature imaginable, so that's all they ever test to. Don't know, can't find the answer.
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Old 12-09-2024, 10:33 AM   #8
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I have the same battery but without BT. Already had a shunt. I took mine out for the winter. Ran it down to 50% charge and it's sitting in a spare room at my house. It'll be in there until near the end of March so about 5 months.

I also have the same battery box. I made a couple wood fillers for one one side and an end to keep the battery from moving around.

If you still have the OEM Norcold refer the you should be fine for a couple days dry camping if you don't run a bunch of other 12V stuff.
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Old 12-09-2024, 10:59 AM   #9
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Sounds like a good system for your use. I also have 4 GC2, 225AH batteries so when I eventually upgrade, I was thinking of 300AH's of lithium.

I will be mounting mine on the inside to keep them warm as I periodically camp in freezing weather. I'd also take it inside for the winter when not in use.

On tongue weight, luckily ORV's typically have decent tongue weight but removing weight from the tongue can negatively affect stability - make sure you measure it and still maintain at least 12%. I plan on permanently mounting my 157 lb generator on the tongue to make up for the loss of battery weight when I go Lithium.....but then, my truck is very lightly loaded when pulling my 25RDS.

regards,
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Old 12-09-2024, 03:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier View Post
Sounds like a good system for your use. I also have 4 GC2, 225AH batteries so when I eventually upgrade, I was thinking of 300AH's of lithium.

I will be mounting mine on the inside to keep them warm as I periodically camp in freezing weather. I'd also take it inside for the winter when not in use.

On tongue weight, luckily ORV's typically have decent tongue weight but removing weight from the tongue can negatively affect stability - make sure you measure it and still maintain at least 12%. I plan on permanently mounting my 157 lb generator on the tongue to make up for the loss of battery weight when I go Lithium.....but then, my truck is very lightly loaded when pulling my 25RDS.

regards,
Dave

Good advice! And thanks to all for their insight.
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Old 12-09-2024, 04:07 PM   #11
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Most people DON'T need their campers when it's freezing, but still want to know how to take care of them so they work in the spring. Li charging and use around freezing is well covered. I'd like a firm temp or chart or anything of what temp they can take for storage? Lead is easy to find, if Li can't be exposed to -10F in storage, that's a fairly significant issue for some people. Not charging below freezing is minor.


It might be that the specs are all written in Shenzhen and -4C is just the coldest temperature imaginable, so that's all they ever test to. Don't know, can't find the answer.
14F is Li lowest temperature for storage, not even close to -10F. Wouldn't have thought that it's too cold for batteries. It's 13F this afternoon and so way too cold for Li batteries.
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Old 12-09-2024, 04:30 PM   #12
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That's what the battery instructions say, but then there's this:
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/an...r.30450/page-3


So it seems not real well defined.
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Old 12-10-2024, 08:01 AM   #13
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Can I ask where you got that battery box from or who makes them?

I have ordered a 300ah battery from Enduro Battery which is a much larger footprint than a standard Group 24 battery. I am replacing dual 12v deep cycle batteries for this one 300ah battery. Seems simpler. I did verify that our 2022 280RKS has controller that is compatible with Lithium so should be a pretty simple install, just need a battery box.

https://www.enduropowerbatteries.com...ithium-battery
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Old 12-10-2024, 04:42 PM   #14
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Can I ask where you got that battery box from or who makes them?

I have ordered a 300ah battery from Enduro Battery which is a much larger footprint than a standard Group 24 battery. I am replacing dual 12v deep cycle batteries for this one 300ah battery. Seems simpler. I did verify that our 2022 280RKS has controller that is compatible with Lithium so should be a pretty simple install, just need a battery box.

https://www.enduropowerbatteries.com...ithium-battery
Century Plastics makes them. A number of distributers in US and Canada. Google Century Plastics battery box. But may be too big for a single battery without putting some material to stabilize the battery, which I plan to do.
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