Lion Energy Lithium Phosphate Battery

[peggwn]

Grump010,

There are possibly two things wrong with what you said:

(1) The "s" in "she" should be capitalized, to read "She"; and

(2) It's not that She "may" find out, it's really "when" She finds out. I don't refer the Her as SWMBO for no reason.

Just my experience speaking.

[Itinerant1]

Stop polluting the thread with BS.

[Yosemite77]

Ironic how senses of humor are funny things. What one person considers funny, others don’t.

Back to topic, for those of you who have Lion-Safari batteries, what size cable and lugs did you use? Has anyone used replacement bolts instead? After seeing Will Prowse’s latest video, I’m wondering what’s the best way to go.

[Smokey3214]

I just did the swap. My rig had a Progrssive Dynamics distribution box with charger. All I did was swap the deep cycle version with the lithium version. Everything went back where it came from. Takes some times but actually pretty easy.

I fully charged it. There has been zero discharge in a month of storage.

[Smokey3214]

Originally Posted by geordi

Lithium: $700 total for 100 amps at 12V. $7 per usable amp.
Flooded GC2, 2 in series used to 50% soc: $170, $1.70 per usable amp.

The only real benefit is the weight savings. This is a no-brainer on the total cost.

I've already spent $600 on lead acid batteries because, at 8,000ft in the Rockies, no matter how good your intentions sometimes you can hardly locate your camper let alone baby your batteries at 5 degrees.

I will almost certainly use the lithium battery for much longer and never have to tunnel to the charging port. It's a no brainer.

[xyzabc]

Originally Posted by twinboat

If you deep cycle your lithium batteries every day, they will last 5 1/2 years.
For a full time dry camper that's great compared to flooded batteries.

If your a seasonal weekend dry camper, then the batteries will probably outlast you. Now your not getting your moneys worth, someone else is.

You might want to check your math. 5000 (minimum) full cycles divided by 365 days equals 13.69 years if you run a lithium battery flat every day.

So where do you get 5 1/2 years?

[nvs4602]

Originally Posted by paul65k

These batteries (at this price) are probably the single best battery value available today.

These are the updated 1330W units that truly will deliver 105Ah usable each. They are smaller than other batteries that use cylindrical cells (like Battle Born which are great batteries) and allow Lion to get the same power/storage in a smaller space (group 24 vs Group 31 for BB) this also makes the batteries 30% lighter than BB as well.

I have had 8 of them in my class A Diesel pusher for about 3 months with a total of 840Ah of storage. The BMS in them is rock solid and they only weigh 23lbs.

Mine charge just fine and very quickly with my existing 19-year-old battery charger set for AGM batteries (Closest profile). If your converter can't handle the charging it is not a big deal to upgrade.

Once you have LifePO4 batteries you will wonder how you coud ever live with Lead Acid (including AGM) batteries again

New video by Will Prowse on lion vs battle born
https://youtu.be/KRe9TWEEoI0

[peggwn]

I humbly apologize for a brief moment of levity in such an in-depth discussion about which battery is best. I personally do not consider a moment of levity or humor to be either pollution or BS. I suppose I just picked the wrong thread to read.

However, I do have a hard time trying to find out about which batteries are best in which circumstances, when a discussion gets to the esoteric level of thousands of a cent per Ahr, and when the assumptions of how long it takes to recharge from solar sources, specifically, numbers of sunshine days per year and hours of sunlight per day, are then added to electrical engineering and mathematically incoherent formulas, all of which ultimately rely on those same nebulous solar/weather predictions and how many times a year and at what altitude and temperature one might recharge their batteries. All of that is complicated by one’s appliance mix and predicted usage assumptions. I had to take a break from all of that seriousness and level of detail. It was distracting. I thank Yosemite for at least recognizing that humor is not always appreciated for what it is, and for then asking a more practical question to get back on track.

I submit that the majority of us may be better served with a more generalized discussion as to the basic pros and cons of each type of battery in different usage circumstances. The finances among us probably vary widely, so our choices may be dependent on a more immediate need to replace batteries vs a desire to change or improve how we want or need to use those batteries. We also have a very wide variety of MH types, usages, and living circumstances. One man’s Class A is another man’s 5er.

Perhaps we would be better served with a 3-column grid (one for each battery type) showing a line item comparison of the characteristics of each battery type, a la review websites or Amazon or Best Buy. That way we can go down each column, tick off the characteristics we need/desire, and then assess which battery overall best meets those qualifications. There are probably some websites and blogs that already do that.

I particularly appreciated the references in this thread to the review websites so I could get a better overall insight/comparison of like type batteries (different brands) and of different type batteries (flooded lead vs AGM vs ???). That way I am able to discern quality issues as well as features available without having to get to the $0.001 cost per Ahr differences across types of batteries. all based a predicted number of recycles per 8 hrs of sunlight for 5-1/2 yrs. Incidentally, I’m not the only one in this thread that mentioned the hip wader depth of detail to which the thread has descended.

I was hoping to discover some good background information about batteries so that when the time comes I can make an informed, rational decision about which type of battery to buy so when asked, either I don’t have to justify anything with SWMBO, or I can at least explain my choice so She can understand. Again, apologies.

[Yosemite77]

Here’s a ROUGH guide on batteries that should give you an idea on how the main types compare. I’m sure I forgot a few things which others can fill in. As always, opinions will vary, but I hope this helps.


Battery Options

FLA - flooded lead acid
Option 1: a single 12v battery
Advantage: low cost
Disadvantages: shouldn’t drain below 50% (shortens the life), off-gassing which needs venting (potentially explosive), must add distilled water periodically, the off-gassing leaves a film which needs to be cleaned up
Option 2: two 6v batteries in series (which equates to one 12v)
Advantages: lower cost than AGM, lithium, but more $$ than a single 12v; longer lasting than a single 12v FLA due to the thicker, heavier plates
***Two 6v batteries are better than one 12v. The exception to this would be if you are always plugged in to shore power.

AGM: 2-3 big advantages when compared with FLA
They are sealed, so no need to add water, no off-gassing, and they can be mounted in any position. I believe it recommended they still be in a vented compartment
The big disadvantage when AGM is compared with FLA is that they are more expensive. They also come in 6v and 12v. As with FLA, AGM batteries should never be drained below 50%.
***AGM batteries are great for people that know they are bad at keeping up with FLA maintenance, ie. watering and cleaning the batteries

Lithium:
Disadvantages: stupidly expensive and shouldn’t be charged in subfreezing temperatures
Advantages: much lighter and much longer life when compared with FLA, can be discharged to at least 20% or more depending on the manufacturer, resulting in the need for fewer batteries. Lithium are faster charging and can be mounted in any position.
If you boondock and can afford the initial expense, lithium are a great option, especially if you are thinking long term. For example, after the Lion Safari UT 1300 lithium battery has be drained and recharged 3500 times, it will still retain 80% of it’s capacity.
***Lithium’s big advantages are depth of discharge, weight and long life when compared to FLA/AGM. If you are always on shore power, you don’t need them due to the $.

[peggwn]

Thanks, Yosemite77. Simple and to the point. I've printed the page and will retain as a guide when we have to replace. Makes me want to lean toward AGMs. Even SWMBO can understand such an investment.

[Yosemite77]

Originally Posted by peggwn

Thanks, Yosemite77. Simple and to the point. I've printed the page and will retain as a guide when we have to replace. Makes me want to lean toward AGMs. Even SWMBO can understand such an investment.

You’re welcome. Check back as others may have additions or possibly a correction or two. Opinions do vary.

[RetirdOutdrs]

Originally Posted by fisher99

I've been thinking that I would replace my two dying 12v batteries with two 6v this spring, but am being tempted to buy one of these instead. On sale for $699 at Costco online. Rated for 3,500 full discharge cycles.

https://www.costco.com/lion-energy-s...100535965.html

No longer found on Costco's website.

[LeisurePursuits]

I'm pretty much finished with the install of 4 Lion LiFePO4 batteries in my 2019 24RKS. These replace two Lifeline AGM 8D batteries that weighed over 300lbs total. The 4 Lion batteries weigh only 92 lbs. I used the space under the foot of the bed between the drawers. There was just the right amount of width available without having to mess with the drawer glide support wood. If the batteries were 1/8" wider it would have been a lot more work. Under the batteries I put a piece of Reflectix insulation and a RV water tank heating pad. Not sure I'll ever need the heating pad, but what the heck. I put a piece of 1/4" plywood on either side over the drawers because with the insulation below the batteries it turned out that the 1/0 gauge cables were just a little too tall to replace the wood panel floor of the storage area. I like having the thin piece of plywood because it does firm up the floor of the storage space. I did not use the terminals that came with the battery. They were just too tall. Instead I used M6 x 12mm flange bolts. I will probably come back and put lock washers under them.







It was nice to be able to remove the huge pair of 8D AGM batteries from the front pass thru. I took advantage of this and reworked my 900 watt solar and 2000 watt inverter wiring.







Hopefully I'll get to go camping with all a little later this year.

[brulaz]

So nice!
Green with envy here.