Lion Energy Lithium Phosphate Battery

[woodflycamp]

Originally Posted by fisher99

Interesting. They were on sale for $699 when I started this thread. In any case, I decided that I wasn't ready to go Lithium so went with two Trojan T105 6 volt's instead.

If you purchase the Lion 2-Pack from Costco, they are still $699 each, but you have to get 2 at a time.

Still a good deal if you wan to go Lithium instead of FLA, AGM, or Gel. This is how I purchased.

[Tbarb]

Installed 3 of Lion Energy 1300’s 3 weeks ago. We just returned from a 10 day trip. They worked great with the 540 watt solar panels on the roof.
I chose the 1300’s for there size. They fit in the F27MKS battery box. You could actually fit 4 in there.
I will try to post a pic.
Sorry, the pic rotated 90*??

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by Tbarb

Installed 3 of Lion Energy 1300’s 3 weeks ago. We just returned from a 10 day trip. They worked great with the 540 watt solar panels on the roof.
I chose the 1300’s for there size. They fit in the F27MKS battery box. You could actually fit 4 in there.
I will try to post a pic.
Sorry, the pic rotated 90*??

I would hope they worked fine, they are brand new.

Let us know how there doing in 10 years.

[Yosemite77]

Here you go. [ATTACH]

[OldShu]

I bit on the Cosco sale for 2 Lion Batteries. I also ordered the WFCO Lith. converter replacement and the Victron SmartShunt for monitoring. TT has the factory Zamp solar package (1 panel) with the Lith. compatible controller. I plan on pulling the fuse on the TV for the 12 v 7 pin charging circuit to isolate the TV from the TT and letting the solar do the majority of the charging. Anything I am missing?
https://wfcoelectronics.com/wp-conte...Ion-Manual.pdf https://invertersrus.com/product/victron-smartshunt/

[Natty]

Why bother with the tow vehicle cord removal? That’s really just a trickle charger anyway due to the small size of the wiring but in a pinch it could help out when, for example, you haven’t had sun for a few days.

[Tbarb]

X2 on Natty’s point.
Why not leave it hooked up? I do not notice any problems with mine running the truck or shore power through the Progressive Dynamic that came with the unit and the Victron solar controller that I installed. Maybe I am missing something and the more knowledgeable on solar install may want to chime in here!

[OldShu]

Thanks for the input. In my Lith. upgrade journey over the last year+ I had seen some concern of the higher voltage Lith. may not play well with the voltage regulators mounted on the TV alternator . Back feeding I suppose. This is why I was isolating the TV by pulling the charging circuit fuse. Looking forward to hearing everyones thoughts.

[TwelveVolt]

Lots of good input here. I am giving this topic some thought because my local Costco has a Lion Energy booth this weekend. The UT1300 is $700.

Lithium has some obvious advantages such as rapid charging throughout the charge cycle, built-in BMS (battery management system controller), no maintenance and longer life.

My Interstate GC2’s (6v golf cart, liquid filled) are reaching their end of life at seven years.
Do I consider lithium now ($1400) or go with GC2’s ($380).
Will the lithium deliver $1000 of value?
If I go with the GC2’s for another 5+ years, what will the lithium market look like then? (i.e. buy a $90,000 Tesla now or wait five years for the $40,000 model?)

BattleBorn offers a ten year warranty on their battery, which we can understand. Lion offers a lifetime warranty up to 3500 charge cycles as counted by the BMS. While it sounds good, what is a charge cycle? We seldom go through a full charge and discharge cycle in our usage experience. If your solar panels are blocked by one or more trees throughout the day, does each tree count as a charge cycle? I will ask.

Here is a problem for the compulsive number crunchers:
Farmer Brown has a herd of four GC2’s. Based on his usage experience, he runs his generator one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening. Assume the GC2’s are discharging to 50%. The charger can deliver up to 50 amps. Assume the generator consumes 0.75 gallons per hour. Assume fuel is $3 per gallon.

How much fuel and generator wear can Farmer brown save in 100 days by switching to lithium batteries?

[Species8472]

Well, Farmer Brown's Li cow is going to out live the barn. And the Li cow can stay out all winter without being fed -- unlike the four GC2 cows that need to be brought into the house and be fed every now and then. That saved Farmer Brown a lot of hassle which can be priceless.

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

Lots of good input here. I am giving this topic some thought because my local Costco has a Lion Energy booth this weekend. The UT1300 is $700.

Lithium has some obvious advantages such as rapid charging throughout the charge cycle, built-in BMS (battery management system controller), no maintenance and longer life.

My Interstate GC2’s (6v golf cart, liquid filled) are reaching their end of life at seven years.
Do I consider lithium now ($1400) or go with GC2’s ($380).
Will the lithium deliver $1000 of value?
If I go with the GC2’s for another 5+ years, what will the lithium market look like then? (i.e. buy a $90,000 Tesla now or wait five years for the $40,000 model?)

BattleBorn offers a ten year warranty on their battery, which we can understand. Lion offers a lifetime warranty up to 3500 charge cycles as counted by the BMS. While it sounds good, what is a charge cycle? We seldom go through a full charge and discharge cycle in our usage experience. If your solar panels are blocked by one or more trees throughout the day, does each tree count as a charge cycle? I will ask.

Here is a problem for the compulsive number crunchers:
Farmer Brown has a herd of four GC2’s. Based on his usage experience, he runs his generator one hour in the morning and one hour in the evening. Assume the GC2’s are discharging to 50%. The charger can deliver up to 50 amps. Assume the generator consumes 0.75 gallons per hour. Assume fuel is $3 per gallon.

How much fuel and generator wear can Farmer brown save in 100 days by switching to lithium batteries?

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by TwelveVolt

BattleBorn offers a ten year warranty on their battery, which we can understand. Lion offers a lifetime warranty up to 3500 charge cycles as counted by the BMS. While it sounds good, what is a charge cycle? We seldom go through a full charge and discharge cycle in our usage experience. If your solar panels are blocked by one or more trees throughout the day, does each tree count as a charge cycle? I will ask.

The Lion rep said that a charge cycle is counted for a >50% increase in charge state (0 to 51% or 30 to 81%, etc.). Unfortunately, reading the count is not available to the user and requires a magical device at the warehouse.

[TwelveVolt]

Originally Posted by Mkaye

what did you do to limit the alternator current?



mark

Thank you for pointing this out. Yours is the first reference I have seen to this problem. The battery can draw so much current that it will burn up the alternator without protection in the circuit.

Here is an excerpt from the Lion web site regarding the alternator:

Yes, the Safari UT will take too much current so you must limit it with the wire you use to charge it. For example, if you need 10-12 feet of wire, a 10-12 gauge wire will work to limit the current. Double check the actual current with a current meter and size the fuses appropriately. You may need to add fuses and other protective equipment to protect the system. To prevent possible damage to your alternator we recommend using the Redarc (Model #BCDC1225D), which is a DC-DC charger. It will safely charge your batteries while you are driving.

[garyb1st]

Just received my 2 Lion Energy batteries from Costco. Lion recommends a Redarc DC-DC charger to protect the engine alternator from overheating. The Redarc is rather pricey and I was looking at a few others. I already have a Victron BMS so am somewhat familiar with their products. They have 20, 40 and 60 amp chargers for maybe half the price. I may upgrade to a 3rd Lithium at some point, so thinking a 40 amp DC-DC charger makes sense.

I've read the alternator issue is not as great with a larger unit. A high output alternator with 255 amps can be purchased for about $125.00. I'm not a gear head so excuse my ignorance, but why not just buy a better alternator?

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by garyb1st

Just received my 2 Lion Energy batteries from Costco. Lion recommends a Redarc DC-DC charger to protect the engine alternator from overheating. The Redarc is rather pricey and I was looking at a few others. I already have a Victron BMS so am somewhat familiar with their products. They have 20, 40 and 60 amp chargers for maybe half the price. I may upgrade to a 3rd Lithium at some point, so thinking a 40 amp DC-DC charger makes sense.

I've read the alternator issue is not as great with a larger unit. A high output alternator with 255 amps can be purchased for about $125.00. I'm not a gear head so excuse my ignorance, but why not just buy a better alternator?

The Redarc's include both Solar MPPT and DC-DC capabilities which may explain, at least in part, why they tend to cost a bit more. I recently installed the VE Orion-TR Smart 12/12-30 for increased charge from my TV and have found it to work very well. I did run dedicated 2 gauge from the truck battery and 6 gauge for the trailer umbilical which is the largest gauge the lugs on the Orion-TR allow. You can install multiple units in parallel if you grow your battery bank past the capability of a single charger. For the money I think the VE products are a good value.