Newbie with towing questions

[4everlooking]

Okay, next question. According to the brochure from ORV, the 22FQS has a tongue weight of 635#, dry weight of 6,150# and a max trailer weight of 9,995 and a CCC of 3,845#. From everything which you guys are telling me, the true tongue weight will be closer to 1,000#-1,200# which I'm inclined to believe. This puts my payload weight over what my truck allows.

According to the factory specs for the Coachmen Explore Freedom Express ultra lite 192RBS,which I'm renting at the end of the month, it has a tongue weight of 638#, empty weight of 4,442# and a max weight of 6000# with a CCC of 1558#.

The difference that I see is that the ORV is 26' 8'', the Coachmen is 22'5". Different CCC. With the tongue weights nearly identical, should I expect a massively different actual tongue weight on the rental? If so, will I likely be over max Payload??

thanks again,
Larry

[Dave Pelletier]

I don't have any experience with that particular trailer but ORV's are known for thier heavy tongue weight and given the specs, I doubt the Coachman would have a tongue weight anywhere close to the loaded 22FQS...

Dave

[rc1991]

I'll chime in having owned a used Lance (2012 1885) which was our first trailer and purchased in 2017 and now have an 2019 ORV 23DBS purchased in Oct 2019.


The Lance was a well built trailer and as some mentioned above they have been raised and beefed up a bit since our model year. We actually took ours successfully down forest service roads without any issues. We did consider a Lance again but I had also really liked the ORV when we were looking the first time.....and as far as buying new it seemed the ORV were more competitively priced than the Lance's which seemed to get very pricey with a lot of electronics, and other bells and whistles.



I can say that the ORV is significantly heavier and beefier. We upgraded our truck from an F150 to an F350 (while we still had the Lance) and the towing experience has been much better. I also have a tongue weight scale the Lance when loaded (including water) was ~650-700 lbs tongue weight and the ORV 23DBS was ~1100 to 1200 lbs. We only had 1504 lbs payload on the F150 and have 3069 lbs on the F350. With the latter we were able to include whatever gear we needed to include in the truck bed along with passengers, etc.



Bottom line was the HD truck gave us a lot more options in trailer choice along with the required safety margins. Have been quite happy with the 23DBS as well!!

[4everlooking]

I'm thinking along the lines of a bigger truck. Looking at the Ram 3500. By going with a 1 ton, as you point out it opens up the possibility of more floorplans. What I would like to find is the right combination of length and height for me. My motorhome was 36' long and 11'6" tall. For getting into the more off the road places, I would like a shorter length. After a couple of hours with the wife looking at floorplans, she likes the 250 RKS. Yes it is a far cry from the 22FQS. But we all know if momma ain't happy......

I'm just sayin...Any thoughts or comments.

[rc1991]

Originally Posted by 4everlooking

I'm thinking along the lines of a bigger truck. Looking at the Ram 3500. By going with a 1 ton, as you point out it opens up the possibility of more floorplans. What I would like to find is the right combination of length and height for me. My motorhome was 36' long and 11'6" tall. For getting into the more off the road places, I would like a shorter length. After a couple of hours with the wife looking at floorplans, she likes the 250 RKS. Yes it is a far cry from the 22FQS. But we all know if momma ain't happy......

I'm just sayin...Any thoughts or comments.

We ended up going with the 23DBS because it had bunk beds but wasn't too much longer than our Lance 1885. The Lance was about 24' to the end of the ladder and the 23DBS is 27'8". We've been able to get it into some relatively tight National Forest sites bit a little shorter would be easier given that we have a long bed truck as well.

[4everlooking]

Which brings up another question, on a 1ton truck 8' bed or 6'4"???. My work truck was a Ford 250 crew cab long bed. At times it felt as long as my motor home.

[fisher99]

Originally Posted by 4everlooking

Been doing my due diligence today. I watched all of the Lance video's. There were some things I liked and some I didn't. Since I can't put hands on right now, I can only judge by the video's. I'm not sold on the lighter frames, thinner walls, and roof of the Lance. I guess that I'm old school in many aspects. I know in structural buildings, thicker heavier usually means more stiffness and rigidity. I realize with modern engineering that cutouts, bends and angles will make a unit stiff under most circumstances, many of todays cars are built this way. But I also know that when one part of the system fails, catastrophic results happen very quickly.

That being said, I believe that a larger truck may be in line, IF and thats a big IF, an appropriate trade in can be done. The wife said if the payments were the same, go for it. After researching between 3/4 and 1 ton trucks, the price point isn't very far off from each other. The payload difference is however quite substantial. This would open up the possibility of different floor plans, including 5th wheel units.

Any comments are truly appreciated. I want to make the best choice possible for us, and I rely heavily on the continued good advice from those of you who have gone before me.

thanks in advance,
Larry

You'll be a lot happier down the road if you buy a bigger truck now. I've tried being "just within the weight limits" and it's not a comfortable place to be. As was pointed out in another post, used vehicle prices are crazy high so you'll probably get more out of your current truck than you think. The bigger problem may be finding a new truck. My brother had his Ford pickup on order for several months before it finally arrived. And speaking of used prices, a GMC dealer bought his 2 year old Yukon Denali for $62k cash (not a trade-in) because he can't get new ones to sell.

As for 8' vs 6.5' bed: I prefer the 6.5, but you'll get opinions on both sides of this. If you ever plan to haul a motorcycle or side-by-side the 8' could be an advantage but I don't like the extra length for normal driving and don't need the extra length for what I take with me when I'm towing.

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by 4everlooking

Which brings up another question, on a 1ton truck 8' bed or 6'4"???. My work truck was a Ford 250 crew cab long bed. At times it felt as long as my motor home.

If you are going to stick with Ford and you want the larger 48g fuel tank you need the 176" wheelbase which would be a crew cab w/8' bed. That is the only model it's available on. I have the SuperCab w/8' bed and the 164" wheelbase. I compromised on the larger fuel tank for the mid-length wheelbase. The turning radius leaves a lot to be desired though. I can barely make it around the cul-de-sac in front of the house without stopping and backing up to clear the curb. As fisher99 said - you will get opinions on boths sides and mine is that I prefer the 8' bed and was glad to get rid of the 6'4" bed the previous RAM had.

[4everlooking]

Originally Posted by fisher99

You'll be a lot happier down the road if you buy a bigger truck now. I've tried being "just within the weight limits" and it's not a comfortable place to be. As was pointed out in another post, used vehicle prices are crazy high so you'll probably get more out of your current truck than you think. The bigger problem may be finding a new truck. My brother had his Ford pickup on order for several months before it finally arrived. And speaking of used prices, a GMC dealer bought his 2 year old Yukon Denali for $62k cash (not a trade-in) because he can't get new ones to sell.

As for 8' vs 6.5' bed: I prefer the 6.5, but you'll get opinions on both sides of this. If you ever plan to haul a motorcycle or side-by-side the 8' could be an advantage but I don't like the extra length for normal driving and don't need the extra length for what I take with me when I'm towing.

Since I'm 65, I don't foresee a motorcycle or 4 wheeler in my future. Dad had Goldwings once I grew up and left home. They were nice and he loved his, but I've always been partial to more wheels and a steel frame around me. More than once dad wished he would have too.

I guess my more correct question should have been, how much smoother on a 1 ton would an 8' bed longer wheelbase be than the shorter 6'4", especially when not towing? Would the extra length help in towing?

[4everlooking]

Originally Posted by ttavasc

If you are going to stick with Ford and you want the larger 48g fuel tank you need the 176" wheelbase which would be a crew cab w/8' bed. That is the only model it's available on. I have the SuperCab w/8' bed and the 164" wheelbase. I compromised on the larger fuel tank for the mid-length wheelbase. The turning radius leaves a lot to be desired though. I can barely make it around the cul-de-sac in front of the house without stopping and backing up to clear the curb. As fisher99 said - you will get opinions on boths sides and mine is that I prefer the 8' bed and was glad to get rid of the 6'4" bed the previous RAM had.

My son is considering Ford. He currently has a Toyota pulling his toy hauler with a Can Am inside. When I explained to him how extremely overweight he was for his truck and that his insurance company wouldn't cover him if involved in an accident, it seemed to catch his interest.

After having this 1500 Ram, which I love, I'm leaning towards another Ram. I've been impressed with it's quality, etc. That doesn't mean the 3500 translates to the same. I've always been a GM guy, and drove my Ford work truck for 2 years. It was roomy and powerful, especially before they took the chip out of it. But because it was chipped out, the transmission gave way on my boss when he was coming back from Oklahoma. Cost the company $$$$$$. So no more chip.

As much as the new trucks will cost, and I hope this to be my last truck, my research continues. I was wanting to upgrade to the 50 gallon tank, never considered that it might take the longer wheelbase. Thanks for the reminder.

[fisher99]

Originally Posted by 4everlooking

Since I'm 65, I don't foresee a motorcycle or 4 wheeler in my future. Dad had Goldwings once I grew up and left home. They were nice and he loved his, but I've always been partial to more wheels and a steel frame around me. More than once dad wished he would have too.

I guess my more correct question should have been, how much smoother on a 1 ton would an 8' bed longer wheelbase be than the shorter 6'4", especially when not towing? Would the extra length help in towing?

In that case the only reason I can think of that you might want to consider a long bed is if you forsee a really large 5th wheeler in your future. Other than that I don't see a compelling reason for it. My Ram with the 6 1/2 foot bed is all I want to maneuver around parking lots, whether it be a shopping mall or at a national park. As for ride quality, I've driven both and my reasonably calibrated butt doesn't notice a difference...

But TTAVASC would definitely disagree. There's no right or wrong answer. Just preference. I'd drive both and make the decision that is right for you.

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by fisher99

In that case the only reason I can think of that you might want to consider a long bed is if you forsee a really large 5th wheeler in your future. Other than that I don't see a compelling reason for it. My Ram with the 6 1/2 foot bed is all I want to maneuver around parking lots, whether it be a shopping mall or at a national park. As for ride quality, I've driven both and my reasonably calibrated butt doesn't notice a difference...

But TTAVASC would definitely disagree. There's no right or wrong answer. Just preference. I'd drive both and make the decision that is right for you.

Regarding ride quality. I had the factory air on my previous RAM 1500 and the ride was absolutely fabulous. It was a bit of a change moving up to the F-250. The first year or so I had a lightweight aluminum bed cover. Last fall I swapped that out for a Leer 122 Hi-Rise canopy. The added ~200lbs over the bed made a noticeable improvement in the empty ride. When I drop the ~1200 tongue on the hitch the ride gets even better. Toppers aren't for everybody, and certainly not if you have any thoughts of moving up to a 5th wheel. But a little added weight over the rear axle does make a difference.

I concur - a good test drive of both will go a long ways towards making a decision. One size does not fit all and it's great to have options.

[4everlooking]

fisher99 thanks for the input. I can't personally see why I would NEED an 8' bed. If that was what it has ok, but not high on my list.

ttavasc thanks also. We have discussed a 5th wheel, but I'm not sold on wanting to go that big. Part of selling the MH was to downsize and simplify. I lean toward the 3500 for the fact that if I should change my mind, I won't have to change trucks again. When I bought the 1500, we didn't think we would be towing anything at all. Probably overkill, but it should be less stress on the vehicle, IMO.

I would love to test drive one, but there isn't many 3500's around at the moment. I've checked a couple of online vehicle sights for trade in value, I think I will be pleased if it holds up till I trade.

Larry

[Lyfs2shrt4BS]

@4everlooking,
You have lots of great input in the previous replies, so I won’t rehash too many of their points. Instead, I’ll share my experiences that I’ve had with a trailer that’s too heavy for my truck, but only in hitch weight.
I have been on the road full time for 12 weeks, 7800 miles on this epic trip through 9 states and 15+ national and state parks.
My Tow truck is a ‘04.5 Ram 2500 5.9l diesel
GVWR=9,000lbs
Max tow=13,500lbs
My 5th wheel is a ‘18 Arctic Wolf 265BH8
GVWR=9,900lbs
Dry hitch=1,354lbs
By the numbers everything SEEMS good to go. We loaded up the trailer and hit the road.... boy did I have a white knuckle drive that day. Every semi that passed me made that thing fishtail... 5th wheels aren’t supposed to do that... so I hit some scales... my truck came in at 9,600lbs and the trailer axels came in at 9400lbs..... that was with EMPTY holding tanks. Granted we had loaded up on caned food, but other than that it was just clothes for 3 humans and supplies for 1 dog and 3 cats... yeah... 12 weeks with cats and a teenager.... that’s a different tale. I managed to unload some stuff at my Dad’s and redistribute weight... best I could get it to was 9,300 and 9,300.... that’s how we rolled for 7k more miles... overloaded, and quite a bit of anxiety every time a semi passes....We finally got the keys to our new house, and I am selling my 5th wheel ASAP. I’ll be buying an ORV 22FQS as our replacement RV. Based on what I have learned be overloaded for so long.... I would not tow a Timber Ridge class with a 1500... you’re just asking for trouble