ORV 25RDS Tongue Weight

[keymastr]

Originally Posted by oshucks

So there appears to be unanimous opinion that ORV trailers tend to run tongue-heavy. Everybody seems to concur that more tongue weight is better, within reason. Of course the rule-of-thumb we've all seen is to shoot for 10-15% tongue weight for stability.

But is 10% sufficient?

For this trailer, hypothetically loaded to 9K pounds with gear and water (still shy of its 10K GVWR...), that puts the target tongue weight somewhere between 900 and 1350. My half-ton can arguably handle 900, but 1350 means my wife has to get out and walk, and that's not going to fly.

I think my next move is to load the trailer down with water and full complement of camping regalia, and visit a CAT scale. That will give me a real-world loaded gross weight for the trailer. From there, I can park it at home, put it on the tongue scale, and play a big game of Tetris with whatever payload is movable to see how the tongue weight can be influenced. I'm guessing that most everything that can will need to go behind the axle (stocked on and under the rear dinette table with some jerry-rigged tie-downs), leaving the front pass-through and under-bed areas empty or loaded with light bulky stuff. A royal pain in the butt, perhaps, but it may avoid needing a new truck.

But all that horsing around is for naught if the real-world experience of you seasoned vets shows that 10% isn't really enough to keep the rig stable.

Plan B is to delay my retirement several more months until I can bankroll a 3/4 ton, and I'd REALLY like to avoid that so I can get out there camping soon...

10% is nowhere near enough for a travel trailer, no matter what brand. They all are unstable until you get closer to 12%, which should be considered the minimum weight.

If the difference in tongue weight between 10% and 13% is holding you back you do not have enough truck anyway. Heavy tongue weight means the truck is heavy and wallows in curves but trailer does not sway. Still feels like trailer is pushing the truck around,(tail wagging the dog), because it is. Lighten the tongue weight up and truck still wallows and the trailer still pushes it around because the trailer weighs more than the truck but now you have introduced trailer sway to this already questionable situation. It will just feel "spooky" and unpredictable.

Of the two situations I would choose heavy tongue over lightening it up. At least it is predictable and not "spooky" feeling. A bigger truck is ultimately the answer but until then do not try to lighten the tongue weight. They intentionally make these tongue heavy so they tow well.

[Cumminsfan]

The OP simply doesn't have enough truck. You can play with the TW all you want but the fact is you have 9000+ lbs trying to move 6000 lbs around. Even my Ram 2500 CC LB gets pushed around on occasion. 10% is great for boats and utility trailers
Think of it this way. Grab an 8' 2x2 and stick it out from you holding it with both arms. Now do the same thing with a 2x6. I bet you can barely do it. Well that's what your trucks up against trying to manhandle 9000+ lbs. It's a leverage thing.

[Highway 4x4]

Correct. The 25RDS loaded with gear for a trip just isn't going to be fun with a 1/2 ton of any kind no matter how you mod the truck. When the tail wags the dog bad things can happen,,,fast.

[Super Thirty]

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4

Correct. The 25RDS loaded with gear for a trip just isn't going to be fun with a 1/2 ton of any kind no matter how you mod the truck. When the tail wags the dog bad things can happen,,,fast.

I concur with the no fun and the tail wagging the dog situation. I’ve towed with a 1500, a 2500 and now I’m towing with a 3500. Travelled close to 15,000 miles over the last two years and it’s much nicer towing with my 3500. Travel days are much nicer, less tiring and less stressful.

[Highway 4x4]

The only difference between your 3500 and my 2500 is the springs. Frame, brakes, diffs, cab, everythig is the same except the 3500 badge. OK the Asain trans is available. I have the factory finned alu diff cover that is used on the 3500 DRW from the factory on mine. The 3500 will tow and carry more because the springs are stiffer.

[Gordon Dewald]

To get a proper tongue weight add all of the stuff you would normally carry, fill the water and propane tanks, food in fridge and whatever else for tools, blocks, etc you will carry.

This is the weight that you will be placing on the tow vehicle. Empty tongue weight is useless.

[Super Thirty]

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4

The only difference between your 3500 and my 2500 is the springs. Frame, brakes, diffs, cab, everythig is the same except the 3500 badge. OK the Asain trans is available. I have the factory finned alu diff cover that is used on the 3500 DRW from the factory on mine. The 3500 will tow and carry more because the springs are stiffer.

Yup. My 2500 was a gas job and I just couldn’t get comfortable with all the transmission shifts and high revs when I got into any type of hills. Kept looking in the mirrors for little pieces lying on the road. It handled the weight of the trailer fine. After 2 years of towing I started looking for a diesel 2500. It became apparent that the price of a new one was the weight of the truck at the current price of gold. So I found a used 3500 with about 16,000 miles on it. Figured there was little difference between it and a diesel 2500 so played let’s make a deal. Haven’t regretted it. If I wasn’t towing it would be gone because it rides like a curb stop empty.

[shane_the_ee]

Originally Posted by oshucks

Have any of you folks taken the trouble to actually measure your tongue weight?

Yes. I have about the smallest & lightest trailer ORV ever made. My loaded tongue weight is about double the brochure tongue weight and is just below my receiver's maximum tongue weight. It's high enough that if I'd bought a Yukon XL Denali, I'd have had to trade in the truck or trailer...

Originally Posted by oshucks

Have any of you folks taken the trouble to actually measure your tongue weight? If so, is the factory "estimated empty tongue weight" a decent approximation, or marketing fiction?

Fiction. And misleading fiction, because every manufacturer calculates it differently and nobody goes camping with an empty trailer.

[Highway 4x4]

Empty tongue weight means empty. They hope we are smart enough to add our propane, and gear and 1 battery or 4. Do you want the loaded tongue weight? Whose load, mine or yourself. I know that no one travels empty but everyone travels different.

[Gordon Dewald]

When we bought our 5er we looked at the pin weight and later when I weighed it the weight was 1000 lbs more. Turns out although we bought the trailer with a bedroom slide the slide was considered an option and not included in the brochure pin weight.

[oshucks]

Originally Posted by Highway 4x4

Empty tongue weight means empty. They hope we are smart enough to add our propane, and gear and 1 battery or 4. Do you want the loaded tongue weight? Whose load, mine or yourself. I know that no one travels empty but everyone travels different.

I was hoping for anybody's actual empty weight measurement just to have something close to an apples/apples comparison. Mine isn't entirely empty, as I'm not passionate enough about this pursuit to strip out the 250 lbs of solar and electrical stuff I put in. Still, the sum weight of all that is less than the difference between my measured "empty-ish" weight and the ORV estimated empty weight. I'm struggling to understand the discrepancy, though I recognize that there isn't a thing I can do about it at this point.

I totally agree that the value of the empty weight measurement is little more than a point from which to mentally estimate the loaded weight on the way to a CAT scale to get a real answer.

And yes, I'm dutifully out shopping for a 3/4 ton...

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by oshucks

I was hoping for anybody's actual empty weight measurement just to have something close to an apples/apples comparison. Mine isn't entirely empty, as I'm not passionate enough about this pursuit to strip out the 250 lbs of solar and electrical stuff I put in. Still, the sum weight of all that is less than the difference between my measured "empty-ish" weight and the ORV estimated empty weight. I'm struggling to understand the discrepancy, though I recognize that there isn't a thing I can do about it at this point.

I totally agree that the value of the empty weight measurement is little more than a point from which to mentally estimate the loaded weight on the way to a CAT scale to get a real answer.

And yes, I'm dutifully out shopping for a 3/4 ton...

I posted my weight earlier. 1350#.
4 6V GC batteries
400W solar.
Full front storage and under the bed full.
Fully loaded everywhere else.
Spare tire move to under the TT near the front.
2 mtn bikes on the rear.
Used an Oregon weigh station. Drove on so just the tongue would be on the scale. Unhitched and weighed just the tongue. 1350#. Scales are in 50# increments so it could be 1351-1399.

[Medicus]

The day I purchased my ORV 25RDS, I stopped at a rest stop to fill it with water (tank in the rear) with the anticipation that we were going boondocking that evening. I had less than 30 miles to go for home on an Interstate. I could not keep it on the road! Despite an elaborate sway bar system, the added weight on the rear without a front load caused tremendous sway at 50 mph. Lesson learned: balanced load is super important. To date, I've had no problems towing my ORV with my F-150, but I have encountered significant sway at times (particularly during gusty days).

[Highway 4x4]

I have traveled many times with my FW tank full. Many times with wind. No issues. I do prefer to travel with the FW tank empty cuz it is about 500 pounds back there. Some places have no water or I prefer not to connect to their water.