ORV build quality

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Pretty sure the QC team was on vacation when mine went through the PDI final test.
Mine had to go back to La Grande so ORV could put it back together right.
FWIW it's a pre covid 2019 built in Dec 2018.
I've said it before it doesn't matter how good the materials are if they aren't put together right.

Goes to show that the whole pre-post covid thing doesn't seem to matter. My 2019 built 2020 was almost perfect, my February 2022 build has been perfect outside of a fitting on the sink I had to tighten 'cause it dripped.

Dave

[Doc Sarvis]

The larger drawers with the push button latch on my 22 FQS absolutely suck. I routinely have several open at each stop. This is highway driving as well. I have tried to adjust the latch without much success. Have had to basically put towels and anything light in there in an effort to help. Also the slides are screwed into junk wood and whole complex under the stove is really cheesy. Now its just a matter of adding steel angle brackets and extra screw to all the joints to try an get a decent connection.

[egwilly]

As previous owners of a 2016 Galcier Peak, we found very few issues as the first years progressed. What we did find was minor, and we repaired/replaced ourselves to avoid long queue times at the dealer.

We think the pandemic had a huge influence on the build quality of all rv's built during that time. Lack of skilled workers was the most of the cause.

[Keodie]

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis

The larger drawers with the push button latch on my 22 FQS absolutely suck. I routinely have several open at each stop. This is highway driving as well. I have tried to adjust the latch without much success. Have had to basically put towels and anything light in there in an effort to help. Also the slides are screwed into junk wood and whole complex under the stove is really cheesy. Now its just a matter of adding steel angle brackets and extra screw to all the joints to try an get a decent connection.

I have had luck with sticky latches on those drawers by lubricating the piece that raises up and down to lock the door. Maybe give that a try....
Definitely not the best latches tho

Definitely not the best wood or cabinet construction either

[Passin Thru2]

I have a 22 FQS. I fixed the the large drawer push button latches by putting spacers cut out a flexible cutting board under the catches to make a tighter fit with the latches. After that we have never had a drawer open (unless we forget to push the button…).

[Bigfin]

Understand the frustration shown by ORV owners regarding things that don’t work correctly, or seem of low quality, but TT are by intent built as light as possible and do move down the road at 60+ MPH, chuck holes and all! Full disclosure, I am a semi professional cabinetmaker/furniture maker who likes things to work, experiences things falling apart too, but who always approaches solutions from the “do less harm side”. What this means is that I try not to make the repair obvious, with heavy metal, etc., but spend a great deal of time considering how to make the repair/improvement invisible to both us, and eventual new owners. I sincerely don’t mean this as criticism of anybody’s skill set, maybe just consider taking a little time before making repairs so they can be done with thoughtfulness in mind rather than frustration. Cheers!…

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Keodie

Definitely not the best wood or cabinet construction either

Just curious; what travel trailer have you seen that had the best wood and cabinet construction?

Thx

Dave

[Keodie]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

Just curious; what travel trailer have you seen that had the best wood and cabinet construction?

Thx

Dave

Had a 06 Springdale that had better fit and finish. Never had to adjust a door latch or drawer glide with thousands of miles. No busted luan under cabinets. No delamination of the interior doors.
Wood putty was used very sparingly, unlike my current unit.

Older Nashes, Artic Foxes, Alpenlites, Holiday Ramblers, Airstreams, Olivers, Bigfoots and some others that are no longer in business or have been bought out.
Not travel trailers, but have you looked at cabinets in Prevost or Country coaches?

It seems as though people just don't have much pride in their work anymore.

All being said, I am happy with my ORV. Finally turning into a nice unit. I can start to enjoy it without finding something that was incomplete or done completely wrong, that has to be repaired. I completely understand what happens during travel, and routine maintenance. I have spent the better part of the last year repairing things that should have never been done in the manner in which they were, or uncompleted. I have also been doing mods at the same time.
It's really frustrating for folks who have done their research, and end up spending the money that these units cost, and end up having a huge list of issues and repairs that should have been caught during their QC. Then you have to either fix it yourself, or play the dealership/ repair shop game forever.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Keodie

Had a 06 Springdale that had better fit and finish. Never had to adjust a door latch or drawer glide with thousands of miles. No busted luan under cabinets. No delamination of the interior doors.
Wood putty was used very sparingly, unlike my current unit.

Older Nashes, Artic Foxes, Alpenlites, Holiday Ramblers, Airstreams, Olivers, Bigfoots and some others that are no longer in business or have been bought out.
Not travel trailers, but have you looked at cabinets in Prevost or Country coaches?

It seems as though people just don't have much pride in their work anymore.

All being said, I am happy with my ORV. Finally turning into a nice unit. I can start to enjoy it without finding something that was incomplete or done completely wrong, that has to be repaired. I completely understand what happens during travel, and routine maintenance. I have spent the better part of the last year repairing things that should have never been done in the manner in which they were, or uncompleted. I have also been doing mods at the same time.
It's really frustrating for folks who have done their research, and end up spending the money that these units cost, and end up having a huge list of issues and repairs that should have been caught during their QC. Then you have to either fix it yourself, or play the dealership/ repair shop game forever.

I'm not trying to argue, just figure out your frame of reference. My ORV cabinets haven't had any issues like broken or delaminated portions. My ORV cabinets appear to be assembled out of the same materials and in the same fashion as my 3 Bigfoot campers (1987 - 1999) and my 1996 Kit Companion, etc. and much better than virtually all the stuff I see being built in Indiana these days. Yes, I have looked at high end million dollar coaches (we used to supply ductwork for Country Coach back in the day), but I'm not sure that's germane to the conversation given the massive price difference between the two products.

I find the whole QC thing interesting because there is such a wide variety of opinions and experiences. I believe there are a few contributing factors;

- 1) Expectations - while I'm certainly not suggesting that problems aren't real or even rampant in some cases, the expectations of the owner seem to play a big part in whether they are happy with their RV's. Some people expect an RV built in a small plant by minimum wage employees to have the same QC as a luxury vehicle built in a billion dollar facility by robots. I work in the construction industry and work on projects up to $100 million total project cost; these buildings will have pages of deficiencies usually numbering in the hundreds or even thousands of items. I recently built another home and there were many dozen deficient items at the end from paint marks to hydronic lines in the concrete being installed wrong...in many ways a TT is more like a house than it is a car.

- 2) Handiness - people who tend to fix things themselves and know or are willing to learn how things work seem to be much happier with their RV than those that must deal with a dealer or tech every time something needs to be addressed.

- 3) 3rd party "stuff" - as we are all aware, virtually everything making up a travel trailer other than the "box" comes from elsewhere and that elsewhere stuff all comes from the same places regardless of the trailer brand. Everything from the tires to the roof membrane and every appliance and switch is 3rd party. Some things have a few better options available which is why ORV chooses Goodyear tires or chooses to install shocks, etc. but most of the "stuff" in an RV is commonplace everywhere. It is with this "stuff" that a large portion of issues seem to arise IME. I tend to blame Norcold, Lippert, or Dexter for their own issues rather than ORV.....but many don't.


I do see that there are people who have had big issues with even the "good" RV brands and I especially feel bad for inexperienced people who don't have the knowledge or skills to deal with problems as they arise.

As someone who is pretty handy, has built several trailers from scratch, owns a fabrication shop, has restored many vehicles, etc. etc. I can certainly see where pretty much every part of an RV could be made much better......and there are some of those better RV's out there - albeit at an extreme price point like Earthroamer, Global Expedition Vehicles, etc. ...but then I realize there are compromises made to keep prices, weights, etc. reasonable considering the average usage.

I think my ORV's are much better than the average TT........or maybe just among the best of a bunch of junk....depends how you look at it, I guess. Rose colored glasses? glass half full? just lucky? .....maybe all of the above.


2 cents,
Dave

[Keodie]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

I'm not trying to argue, just figure out your frame of reference. My ORV cabinets haven't had any issues like broken or delaminated portions. My ORV cabinets appear to be assembled out of the same materials and in the same fashion as my 3 Bigfoot campers (1987 - 1999) and my 1996 Kit Companion, etc. and much better than virtually all the stuff I see being built in Indiana these days. Yes, I have looked at high end million dollar coaches (we used to supply ductwork for Country Coach back in the day), but I'm not sure that's germane to the conversation given the massive price difference between the two products.

I find the whole QC thing interesting because there is such a wide variety of opinions and experiences. I believe there are a few contributing factors;

- 1) Expectations - while I'm certainly not suggesting that problems aren't real or even rampant in some cases, the expectations of the owner seem to play a big part in whether they are happy with their RV's. Some people expect an RV built in a small plant by minimum wage employees to have the same QC as a luxury vehicle built in a billion dollar facility by robots. I work in the construction industry and work on projects up to $100 million total project cost; these buildings will have pages of deficiencies usually numbering in the hundreds or even thousands of items. I recently built another home and there were many dozen deficient items at the end from paint marks to hydronic lines in the concrete being installed wrong...in many ways a TT is more like a house than it is a car.

- 2) Handiness - people who tend to fix things themselves and know or are willing to learn how things work seem to be much happier with their RV than those that must deal with a dealer or tech every time something needs to be addressed.

- 3) 3rd party "stuff" - as we are all aware, virtually everything making up a travel trailer other than the "box" comes from elsewhere and that elsewhere stuff all comes from the same places regardless of the trailer brand. Everything from the tires to the roof membrane and every appliance and switch is 3rd party. Some things have a few better options available which is why ORV chooses Goodyear tires or chooses to install shocks, etc. but most of the "stuff" in an RV is commonplace everywhere. It is with this "stuff" that a large portion of issues seem to arise IME. I tend to blame Norcold, Lippert, or Dexter for their own issues rather than ORV.....but many don't.


I do see that there are people who have had big issues with even the "good" RV brands and I especially feel bad for inexperienced people who don't have the knowledge or skills to deal with problems as they arise.

As someone who is pretty handy, has built several trailers from scratch, owns a fabrication shop, has restored many vehicles, etc. etc. I can certainly see where pretty much every part of an RV could be made much better......and there are some of those better RV's out there - albeit at an extreme price point like Earthroamer, Global Expedition Vehicles, etc. ...but then I realize there are compromises made to keep prices, weights, etc. reasonable considering the average usage.

I think my ORV's are much better than the average TT........or maybe just among the best of a bunch of junk....depends how you look at it, I guess. Rose colored glasses? glass half full? just lucky? .....maybe all of the above.


2 cents,
Dave

Not trying to argue either. I agree with you. I do think ORV makes one of the best trailers. I think that, as I have said before, I don't think every unit can be QC'd. Only a select few out of a particular run can efficiently be QC'd. I also think quality depends on the worker on a particular day, or the person inspecting the work. Some guys have gotten extremely lucky with their trailers being relatively problem free, while some have not.
I do all of my own work and am mostly happy to, as I've been in the trade for a while. Tried dealing with the dealer at first......ha! No more of that.

Not saying that these units should have custom amish built cabinets, but the fit and finish could be much better. I looked at a few ORV's for a couple years prior to purchasing ours, and the fit and finish seemed way better.

I definitely wasn't expecting a problem free rig, but was very disappointed with the plethora of careless, incomplete, and just plain dumb dumb problems.

Completely agree with the 3rd party stuff's issues and being commonplace throughout the industry, definitely not ORV' s fault. It is though, if they install obviously defective parts. Most of my issues have been assembly and fitment.

Agreed, I feel bad for folks that have to rely on dealers or repair facilities.....until they find a good one. I'm a pretty handy person myself, and can always see a better way to do things. But then it would cost more.

I was mostly just responding to the ORV build quality question. Did not mean to offend anyone!

[Doc Sarvis]

Originally Posted by Bigfin

Understand the frustration shown by ORV owners regarding things that don’t work correctly, or seem of low quality, but TT are by intent built as light as possible and do move down the road at 60+ MPH, chuck holes and all! Full disclosure, I am a semi professional cabinetmaker/furniture maker who likes things to work, experiences things falling apart too, but who always approaches solutions from the “do less harm side”. What this means is that I try not to make the repair obvious, with heavy metal, etc., but spend a great deal of time considering how to make the repair/improvement invisible to both us, and eventual new owners. I sincerely don’t mean this as criticism of anybody’s skill set, maybe just consider taking a little time before making repairs so they can be done with thoughtfulness in mind rather than frustration. Cheers!…

I have been an aerospace engineer for the past 25 years. I did a bunch of research on TT's before I bought the ORV. ORV has any number of home produced videos telling us how great their quality is compared to the rest of the industry. Two items in particular strike me as poor based on personal experience.

They go to great lengths to tell you that their steel is sourced from North America. What they don't do is coat that steel with anything that lasts. I have extensive rust at the one year mark. Secondly they say they use 100lb drawer slides. While the slides maybe what the are connected to and how they are fastened are a much lower percentage of that. Under the stove the front part of the slide is screwed in particle board and the rear into a stapled piece of probably a pallet. Its a bad design and is not workmanship dependent. Some simple screws and lightweight steel brackets help.

There are aspects of the trailer that are fantastic. I did six six trips this winter and can run a small space heater and keep comfortable at night. Its the unseen construction details that pop up after you have left the dealer that drive me kind of nuts. I had a Keystone Outback for years that I had very few expectations with and it exceeded them in every way.

Just trying to further the conversation here.....

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Keodie

Not trying to argue either. I agree with you. I do think ORV makes one of the best trailers. I think that, as I have said before, I don't think every unit can be QC'd. Only a select few out of a particular run can efficiently be QC'd. I also think quality depends on the worker on a particular day, or the person inspecting the work. Some guys have gotten extremely lucky with their trailers being relatively problem free, while some have not.
I do all of my own work and am mostly happy to, as I've been in the trade for a while. Tried dealing with the dealer at first......ha! No more of that.

Not saying that these units should have custom amish built cabinets, but the fit and finish could be much better. I looked at a few ORV's for a couple years prior to purchasing ours, and the fit and finish seemed way better.

I definitely wasn't expecting a problem free rig, but was very disappointed with the plethora of careless, incomplete, and just plain dumb dumb problems.

Completely agree with the 3rd party stuff's issues and being commonplace throughout the industry, definitely not ORV' s fault. It is though, if they install obviously defective parts. Most of my issues have been assembly and fitment.

Agreed, I feel bad for folks that have to rely on dealers or repair facilities.....until they find a good one. I'm a pretty handy person myself, and can always see a better way to do things. But then it would cost more.

I was mostly just responding to the ORV build quality question. Did not mean to offend anyone!

No offense taken and good discussion IMO. If QC inspections were spot checks rather than every unit, that would explain some of the disparate results we see.

cheers,
Dave

[Keodie]

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis

I have been an aerospace engineer for the past 25 years. I did a bunch of research on TT's before I bought the ORV. ORV has any number of home produced videos telling us how great their quality is compared to the rest of the industry. Two items in particular strike me as poor based on personal experience.

They go to great lengths to tell you that their steel is sourced from North America. What they don't do is coat that steel with anything that lasts. I have extensive rust at the one year mark. Secondly they say they use 100lb drawer slides. While the slides maybe what the are connected to and how they are fastened are a much lower percentage of that. Under the stove the front part of the slide is screwed in particle board and the rear into a stapled piece of probably a pallet. Its a bad design and is not workmanship dependent. Some simple screws and lightweight steel brackets help.

There are aspects of the trailer that are fantastic. I did six six trips this winter and can run a small space heater and keep comfortable at night. Its the unseen construction details that pop up after you have left the dealer that drive me kind of nuts. I had a Keystone Outback for years that I had very few expectations with and it exceeded them in every way.

Just trying to further the conversation here.....

The frame....... what a pita! I had rust within a couple weeks of using it. The paint SUCKS! I am just over a year into owning this trailer, and the whole frame needs to be repainted. Seems like it rusts more overnight. Steel seems to be good. Says USA on it.

100 pound drawer glides! That has cracked me up since I watched the videos. Absolutely in no way, shape or form, are the drawers or cabinets the glides are attached to, would hold 100 pounds, especially while traveling.

The foo foo board and pine nailers are a great sign of good quality cabinet material....wonder how screws get stripped out so easily, and why the nailer split when screws are just driven without predrilling.

I will say that we have done a fair amount of camping this winter as well. I am impressed with how warm and cozy you can be in your unit, while it is below freezing and snowing out. Hungry furnace tho!

My 06 Springdale surprised me as well....thought that would require alot of work....it was very well used. Not much in the way of repairs, just typical maintenance.

[Keodie]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

No offense taken and good discussion IMO. If QC inspections were spot checks rather than every unit, that would explain some of the disparate results we see.

cheers,
Dave

Good discussion indeed.