Outdoors RV Solar Built Out Recommendations

[bob26rls]

Originally Posted by bentSpace

Mine's a 2019, but it has the WFCO power converter. So not I good idea to charge my batteries with this one?

It will charge the batteries fine, but it may not ever go into bulk-charge mode (14.4v) which means that you won't get as much charge on the batteries if you're charging for short periods (e.g. on a generator for an hour or two). If you're on shore power for more than a few hours, bulk-charge mode isn't that important.

The other problem with WFCO converters that I've experienced is that they never go into storage mode, usually 12.6V. This is a problem if you leave the charger on for weeks or months at a time as 13.6V will boil the batteries. I found that out the hard way as I wasn't checking the water levels in my truck camper over the winter.

It's easy to monitor the charge mode with a voltmeter. If you have a cigarette lighter you can easily see, you can buy a voltmeter that plugs into that. I say easily see because on my 26RLS the only outlet I have is on the side of the rear table with a recliner next to it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of owners didn't even know it was there.

I replaced the WFCO with a PD in my ORV because I wanted both bulk and storage mode charging, and because the PD allows me to manually select the charging mode. I didn't replace it because it wouldn't charge the batteries.

[brulaz]

Originally Posted by bob26rls

It will charge the batteries fine, but it may not ever go into bulk-charge mode (14.4v)
...

True that the WFCO's low voltage mode will slowly charge depleted batteries, but if it doesn't ever go into bulk-absorb charge mode (and usually the WFCO doesn't) then it's not charging the batteries properly.

Literally all lead acid battery manufacturers say that that a proper charge ends with a 14.4-14.9V absorb phase (constant V, declining A), terminated after a couple of hours or when the current drops to a low value.

If the charger doesn't do this regularly, lead acid batteries will sulfate, reducing their life time.

[beach house]

Originally Posted by bentSpace

Thanks for the links. I also get the sense that Zamp is overpriced...

Bob sounds trustworthy.

So hard to know who to trust these days... I get the feeling that some bloggers are getting free stuff or perks for recommending certain things and so many fake reviews on amazon and such...

BentSpace,
Like others have said, Handy Bob Solar is an old school straight shooter that has been living on solar for 20+ years, about 15 of those years in a 5th wheel RV w/o a generator. He started early on and had to learn the hard way, but was smart enough to figure all the issues and down falls out long ago. He does not get any kick backs, and only recommends the equipment that he has used and has experience with. He is very picky on the quality and performance of equipment, especially regarding the solar charge controllers. I would strongly recommend reading his article, titled "the battery charging puzzle" and also the article where he discusses the system made in USA, by Bogart Engineering, The Trimetric TM2030RV coupled their charge controller SC2030 (a very efficient PWM controller). The Trimetric is a shunt based battery meter similar to the Victron battery monitor, but much better and easier to use. The Trimetric works together with the SC2030 charge controller to fine tune the charging voltage and amperage, knowing how much power was depleted from the batteries and how much needs to go back in. This system allows a more quicker and effective charge during the normally slow absorption phase, without hurting the batteries. Since the solar daylight hours are considerably less during the winter time, this quicker absorb charging algorithm is crucial to getting your batteries topped of during those short days. I have had this exact system for 4+ years, and it has performed flawlessly, exceeding my expectations considerably. The system is silent, runs cool, without needing noisy cooling fans, and if you need to expand the system, the Trimetric can control/handle two SC2030 charge controllers for up to 62amps of charging output.


As far as MPPT vs PWM, it all depends on what your needs are. If you are using, what is considered 12v panels (like the ones you and others mentioned) a good quality PWM controller is the best and most efficient way to go, unless you plan to connect the 12v panels in series, or plan on using the higher voltage grid tie type panels. If connecting in series or using high voltage panels, then a good MPPT charge controller will be needed. As Bob recommends, the best, most efficient MPPT charge controller out there is the MorningStar TriStar MPPT charge controller. They come in 30, 45, and 60 amp outputs.
As for connecting 12v panels in series, that is not recommended, because RV roofs have a very high tendency of shading issue, especially during the winter months, when the sun is lower in the sky. When panels are connected in parallel and one panel gets shaded, it reduces the output of only that panel. If the panels are connected in series and one panel is shaded, you will lose the output of two panels. Considering the short winter days, you don't want to lose any more output than you have to, so you should give it some thought to the pros and cons of series vs parallel connection/setup.

As for the inverter, the best is Magnum Energy Inverters, and they are one of the few, if not the only ones that are still made in USA. One of their neatest inverters is the MSH3000 hybrid inverter. When you are plugged into limited shore power (15amp outlet), or say, you need to run a/c off of your small inverter generator, the inverter will assist the generator or the limited shore power with additional power. When the load decreases, it switches to charging the batteries. A very nifty useful feature for certain needs. In any case, if the Magnum brand is too pricey for you, consider getting an inverter that has a charger built in, since your converter is not ideal for your needs, this won't cost much more, and will be worth the upgrade. Just make sure the charging parameters are adjustable on the inverter you decide to acquire.
As others have stated, have the charge controller as close to the battery bank as you can realistically have, and don't skimp out on the heavier gauge wire. That is the only way you can fight voltage drop, which is the killer on solar charging efficiency. Every tenth of a volt counts when you are dealing with short solar days, plus if you go with larger wiring, you have the option to expand without having to run additional wiring.
BTW, if you do plan to use the lower voltage panels, don't let anyone talk you into an MPPT controller, as the voltage on the 12v panels is not high enough to overcome the efficiency losses of the transformers in those MPPT charge controllers.




Here is a link to Bogart Engineering website, it is an outstanding company with great products.


home - Bogart Engineering


Good luck with your new system.

[bob26rls]

Originally Posted by brulaz

... If the charger doesn't do this regularly, lead acid batteries will sulfate, reducing their life time.

Good point brulaz, I didn't realize that the WFCO converter doesn't have an automatic equalizer. That's another point in favor of the Progressive Dynamics converters. They, according to their documentation, apply 14.4v for 15min every 21 hours, when in storage mode.

I also need to correct the voltage that I stated for storage mode in my previous post, it's 13.2V for most chargers. The 12.6V value I listed is actually the voltage of a fully charged lead-acid at rest. I guess I needed another cup of coffee before posting.

[camper8251]

Has anyone kept the controller mounted over the bed?
Would like to see pictures of your install.

I dont really want to take up any space anywhere else so thats why I am thinking of doing that, however most controllers look like they way you would wire them it would show the wiring since it comes in from the bottom. So I wouldnt think you could do a flush mount.

If anyone has their controller mounted above the bed would like to see pictures of it and the wiring if you could.


Thanks

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by camper8251

Has anyone kept the controller mounted over the bed?
Would like to see pictures of your install.

I dont really want to take up any space anywhere else so thats why I am thinking of doing that, however most controllers look like they way you would wire them it would show the wiring since it comes in from the bottom. So I wouldnt think you could do a flush mount.

If anyone has their controller mounted above the bed would like to see pictures of it and the wiring if you could.


Thanks

Here's mine.
I still need to make something to cover the wires.

[camper8251]

Awesome Thanks for posting that.. Kind of what I figured it would look like... Hmmmm What to do.............

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by camper8251

Awesome Thanks for posting that.. Kind of what I figured it would look like... Hmmmm What to do.............

Yeah it's not pretty but I don't get all hung up the bedroom area. It was really convenient to install it there.
If I had a 5th wheel I would've mounted it in the basement. Much easier to run wiring.
I mounted the MT50 monitor in the hallway right before you go into the bedroom. Makes it easy to check levels without climbing on the bed.

[camper8251]

I was thinking, what if you build a frame around and it and flush mount only the display portion and have the wires behind the face of the cabinet....


How did you run the wires to the MT50?

[Brad Wilf]

Here’s mine, there’s a access panel in the overhead compartment, all wires “should” be there. I have a pwm controller, I know I know before people start talking voltage drops and inefficiency.. for 400 loonies all in, it works. All depends what your looking for in a system, a week or two at a time boon-docking, full time boon-docking. Spring to fall, we have absolutely no charging problems... for now 2 12v agm’s

[camper8251]

Nice looking Brad... Eh....
Been up your way many a time on the way to Kelowna to visit family..

Sounds like you have the setup I am moving towards.
Going to put 2 200watt panels on roof and controller in overhead.

Did you all add any breakers in between?

[bentSpace]

Definitely makes it easier to keep an eye on the readout if the solar charge controller is over the bed, but sounds like it's better to mount it closer to the batteries. How much better, I'm not sure...

[camper8251]

From what I have read I think you are correct, but I dont really want to go crazy rewiring things and such. I like all the storage space that is under the bed and in the pass thru.

[Brad Wilf]

Originally Posted by camper8251

Nice looking Brad... Eh....
Been up your way many a time on the way to Kelowna to visit family..

Sounds like you have the setup I am moving towards.
Going to put 2 200watt panels on roof and controller in overhead.

Did you all add any breakers in between?

I double checked the connections in the roof cap box “40amp resettable breaker (stock) with connections that are known sometimes to be loose” then added a 30 amp in line fuse before the controller. It works for us and our draw usage...eh.


Kelowna’s gotten pretty big... but still nice, with that big old lake beside em.