|
|
03-03-2020, 01:06 AM
|
#43
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 32
|
I think I'm going to do 3 panels on the roof and 1 portable. Wondering if it's a bad idea to connect the portable into the same solar charge controller as the 3 on the roof, given the wires will probably be a lot longer for the portable?
I'm thinking to connect all in parallel, since that method seems to work better when there is partial shade, right?
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
03-03-2020, 08:12 AM
|
#44
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Fairbanks, Ak
Posts: 718
|
The placement of the solar controller is asinine in my opinion. I ordered our 280RKS from Apache with a solar install, the only stipulation was, the controller is to be mounted in the cabinet. I do not regret each time I see other ORVs with any controller mounted above the bed.
__________________
Kip and Kirby the Wonder Dog
2014 F250 XL 6.2L
2018 ORV 280RKS
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 08:25 AM
|
#45
|
Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,940
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentSpace
I think I'm going to do 3 panels on the roof and 1 portable. Wondering if it's a bad idea to connect the portable into the same solar charge controller as the 3 on the roof, given the wires will probably be a lot longer for the portable?
I'm thinking to connect all in parallel, since that method seems to work better when there is partial shade, right?
|
I've got three "24V" (72 cell) panels connected in parallel on the roof. They're not the same shape or manufacturer but I managed to match the Vmp values pretty well (36.5V vs 36.72V) which supposedly helps the MPPT charger.
My two portable panels ("12V", 36 cell but in series, making them effectively a 72 cell combo) are run through a separate solar charger, but prolly could have been paralleled with the ones on the roof. Their summed Vmp is a little higher than those on the roof, but the cable lengths are longer so there's more V drop. But I wanted another MPPT charger anyway ...
Dunno whether matching Vmp is as important for a PWM controller? You prolly do not want to mix 72 cell or 36 cell panels in parallel anyway.
__________________
2014 Timber Ridge 240RKS, 70K miles
690W Rooftop + 340W Portable Solar, 215Ah GC2s@24V
2016 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 RegCab SLT, 10-11 mpgUS tow
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 08:33 AM
|
#46
|
Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,569
|
I built Handy Bob's smaller system and it worked very well.
I had 400amp/hrs of AGM batteries and only 200 watts of panels. I seldom boondocked for more than a weekend and the system was perfect.
__________________
1996 Tioga Class C
2007 Monaco Diplomat 40 PDQ
TOAD 2012 Cadillac SRX 4
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 09:30 AM
|
#47
|
Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Alaska
Posts: 64
|
Hi Camper8251, I have controller very similar to Cumminsfan, but mounted the controller inside of the cabinet in the middle (on the cabinet bottom behind the panel).
Where Cumminsfan has his controller, instead; I have the MT-50 monitor and the Victron monitor.
ioski
__________________
Cache Camper, Cab Over Canopy 2021
180W Rooftop Solar, 200Ah Battleborn Lithium
F250 XLT, 4WD, 6.2L, crew cab - 2017
Outdoors RV - Creekside 20FQ - 2019
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 09:47 AM
|
#48
|
Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Mission BC
Posts: 739
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentSpace
I think I'm going to do 3 panels on the roof and 1 portable. Wondering if it's a bad idea to connect the portable into the same solar charge controller as the 3 on the roof, given the wires will probably be a lot longer for the portable?
I'm thinking to connect all in parallel, since that method seems to work better when there is partial shade, right?
|
Why not use the side port on the trailer for portable panel? Usually portable panels come with charge controller built in, plug and play. Remove wiring access door under the front of the trailer right behind the A frame to double check all connections.
There's lots of discussion on parallel vs series, pros and cons on both. Is there a perfect set-up? probably not. IMO it comes down to usage and budget.
I'm very happy with my set-up, can it be more efficient, yes I'm sure it can be. But for right now it works for us, I can spend my time and $$ doing other things.
__________________
2018 Black Rock 24kts, 300 watts Solar, 4-230ah gc2’s
2008 Dodge 3500 4x4, 6.7, delete, LB, 6 spd man. Firestone bags.
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 10:16 AM
|
#49
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: America's Seaplane City.
Posts: 1,176
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Wilf
Why not use the side port on the trailer for portable panel? Usually portable panels come with charge controller built in, plug and play. Remove wiring access door under the front of the trailer right behind the A frame to double check all connections.
There's lots of discussion on parallel vs series, pros and cons on both. Is there a perfect set-up? probably not. IMO it comes down to usage and budget.
I'm very happy with my set-up, can it be more efficient, yes I'm sure it can be. But for right now it works for us, I can spend my time and $$ doing other things.
|
Having the controller mounted to a portable is not the best way to go. It will work, sort of, depending on the length and gauge of the wire.
Generally the idea on a portable panel is to be able to place it away from the RV, requiring a longer cable run. With the controller on the panel you will encounter voltage drop, perhaps severe, depending. In any case, the batteries will not get the charge that the controller thinks it is putting out without a separate battery voltage cable run directly to port on the controller, if equipped. If not equipped with a separate remote voltage pick up this option will not be available. Even if the option was there, running another cable out is not an ideal solution.
Dropping even .5 volts between the controller and the batteries is a big deal. Between the controller and the panel, while still not ideal, not so much of a big deal.
Hopefully I didn't confuse the issue too badly.
Bottom line, controller mounted to panel is not a good idea unless the run is very short, say less than 10'.
__________________
1998 Safari Trek 2480, 7.4 Vortec, 118k miles
'15 Kawasaki Versys650LT, well farkled, 104k miles
Mid Flowriduh
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 10:33 AM
|
#50
|
Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Mission BC
Posts: 739
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveJ.
Having the controller mounted to a portable is not the best way to go. It will work, sort of, depending on the length and gauge of the wire.
Generally the idea on a portable panel is to be able to place it away from the RV, requiring a longer cable run. With the controller on the panel you will encounter voltage drop, perhaps severe, depending. In any case, the batteries will not get the charge that the controller thinks it is putting out without a separate battery voltage cable run directly to port on the controller, if equipped. If not equipped with a separate remote voltage pick up this option will not be available. Even if the option was there, running another cable out is not an ideal solution.
Dropping even .5 volts between the controller and the batteries is a big deal. Between the controller and the panel, while still not ideal, not so much of big deal.
Hopefully I didn't confuse the issue too badly.
Bottom line, controller mounted to panel is not a good idea unless the run is very short, say less than 10'.
|
ahhh yes good point.
__________________
2018 Black Rock 24kts, 300 watts Solar, 4-230ah gc2’s
2008 Dodge 3500 4x4, 6.7, delete, LB, 6 spd man. Firestone bags.
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 10:42 AM
|
#51
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 82
|
Outdoors RV Solar Built Out Recommendations
Yes you do all this, spend way too much for what you get, then the system fails and flimsy parts start to break. That’s when you visit your local Honda dealer and buy a generator.
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 11:00 AM
|
#52
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: America's Seaplane City.
Posts: 1,176
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftys
Yes you do all this, spend way too much for what you get, then the system fails and flimsy parts start to break. That’s when you visit your local Honda dealer and buy a generator.
|
I've spent a lot more time and money keeping generators running($$$$) than on solar repairs($0) in the four years that I've had solar.
But I still need a genny for A/C, living in the SE.
Obviously, solar is not for everyone. But neither were automobiles when they came out.
__________________
1998 Safari Trek 2480, 7.4 Vortec, 118k miles
'15 Kawasaki Versys650LT, well farkled, 104k miles
Mid Flowriduh
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 02:28 PM
|
#53
|
Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,940
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leftys
Yes you do all this, spend way too much for what you get, then the system fails and flimsy parts start to break. That’s when you visit your local Honda dealer and buy a generator.
|
I've had no failures in the last 5 years or so of our trailer's solar operation.
No moving parts ...
__________________
2014 Timber Ridge 240RKS, 70K miles
690W Rooftop + 340W Portable Solar, 215Ah GC2s@24V
2016 Ram 2500 CTD 4x4 RegCab SLT, 10-11 mpgUS tow
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 02:33 PM
|
#54
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 32
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Wilf
Why not use the side port on the trailer for portable panel? Usually portable panels come with charge controller built in, plug and play. Remove wiring access door under the front of the trailer right behind the A frame to double check all connections.
There's lots of discussion on parallel vs series, pros and cons on both. Is there a perfect set-up? probably not. IMO it comes down to usage and budget.
I'm very happy with my set-up, can it be more efficient, yes I'm sure it can be. But for right now it works for us, I can spend my time and $$ doing other things.
|
From what I remember, Handy Bob seemed critical of those controllers that come mounted on the panels, both because they're not very good and because apparently it's much better to have the controller closer to the batteries rather than near the panel. Not sure if it matters that much, but I thought that I could connect that side port into the controller that is managing the roof panels, that I think I'll mount in the passthrough near the batteries. Though a panel with it's own controller might be handy if I want to take off with just the truck... Decisions, decisions...
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 02:46 PM
|
#55
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 32
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by beach house
BentSpace,
Like others have said, Handy Bob Solar is an old school straight shooter that has been living on solar for 20+ years, about 15 of those years in a 5th wheel RV w/o a generator. He started early on and had to learn the hard way, but was smart enough to figure all the issues and down falls out long ago. He does not get any kick backs, and only recommends the equipment that he has used and has experience with. He is very picky on the quality and performance of equipment, especially regarding the solar charge controllers. I would strongly recommend reading his article, titled "the battery charging puzzle" and also the article where he discusses the system made in USA, by Bogart Engineering, The Trimetric TM2030RV coupled their charge controller SC2030 (a very efficient PWM controller). The Trimetric is a shunt based battery meter similar to the Victron battery monitor, but much better and easier to use. The Trimetric works together with the SC2030 charge controller to fine tune the charging voltage and amperage, knowing how much power was depleted from the batteries and how much needs to go back in. This system allows a more quicker and effective charge during the normally slow absorption phase, without hurting the batteries. Since the solar daylight hours are considerably less during the winter time, this quicker absorb charging algorithm is crucial to getting your batteries topped of during those short days. I have had this exact system for 4+ years, and it has performed flawlessly, exceeding my expectations considerably. The system is silent, runs cool, without needing noisy cooling fans, and if you need to expand the system, the Trimetric can control/handle two SC2030 charge controllers for up to 62amps of charging output.
As far as MPPT vs PWM, it all depends on what your needs are. If you are using, what is considered 12v panels (like the ones you and others mentioned) a good quality PWM controller is the best and most efficient way to go, unless you plan to connect the 12v panels in series, or plan on using the higher voltage grid tie type panels. If connecting in series or using high voltage panels, then a good MPPT charge controller will be needed. As Bob recommends, the best, most efficient MPPT charge controller out there is the MorningStar TriStar MPPT charge controller. They come in 30, 45, and 60 amp outputs.
As for connecting 12v panels in series, that is not recommended, because RV roofs have a very high tendency of shading issue, especially during the winter months, when the sun is lower in the sky. When panels are connected in parallel and one panel gets shaded, it reduces the output of only that panel. If the panels are connected in series and one panel is shaded, you will lose the output of two panels. Considering the short winter days, you don't want to lose any more output than you have to, so you should give it some thought to the pros and cons of series vs parallel connection/setup.
As for the inverter, the best is Magnum Energy Inverters, and they are one of the few, if not the only ones that are still made in USA. One of their neatest inverters is the MSH3000 hybrid inverter. When you are plugged into limited shore power (15amp outlet), or say, you need to run a/c off of your small inverter generator, the inverter will assist the generator or the limited shore power with additional power. When the load decreases, it switches to charging the batteries. A very nifty useful feature for certain needs. In any case, if the Magnum brand is too pricey for you, consider getting an inverter that has a charger built in, since your converter is not ideal for your needs, this won't cost much more, and will be worth the upgrade. Just make sure the charging parameters are adjustable on the inverter you decide to acquire.
As others have stated, have the charge controller as close to the battery bank as you can realistically have, and don't skimp out on the heavier gauge wire. That is the only way you can fight voltage drop, which is the killer on solar charging efficiency. Every tenth of a volt counts when you are dealing with short solar days, plus if you go with larger wiring, you have the option to expand without having to run additional wiring.
BTW, if you do plan to use the lower voltage panels, don't let anyone talk you into an MPPT controller, as the voltage on the 12v panels is not high enough to overcome the efficiency losses of the transformers in those MPPT charge controllers.
Here is a link to Bogart Engineering website, it is an outstanding company with great products.
home - Bogart Engineering
Good luck with your new system.
|
Yes, it definitely seems like Bob knows what he's talking about regarding solar. I'll probably wind up going with his recommendations on the charge controller and such. I read his battery charging puzzle and some of his other articles. I can't recall seeing any recommendations for panels.Yes, it definitely seems like Bob knows what he's talking about regarding solar. I'll probably wind up going with his recommendations on the charge controller and such. I read his battery charging puzzle and some of his other articles. I can't recall seeing any recommendations for panels. Is there a big difference between different brands of panels?
I was considering those panels made by Higtec Solar Inc., that people mentioned previously, which seems to be a company here in the United States and it's looks like they have a 25 year warranty and for not a bad price it seems. Does anybody know if these are good panels?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/200-25-Watt...AAAOSwbWZacTa~
If I put three of their 200 watt +25% panels on the roof plus make one into a portable. Would that be an overkill?
I do plan on doing a lot of winter camping as well as camping in forested areas.
|
|
|
03-03-2020, 02:49 PM
|
#56
|
Senior Member
Outdoors RV Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Mission BC
Posts: 739
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by brulaz
I've had no failures in the last 5 years or so of our trailer's solar operation.
No moving parts ...
|
x2 ditto. My first solar experience was on my Lance TC, 1-100 watt panel worked flawlessly for 6 years, so with the new trailer, I went with same company. Been only one year so far, but I have same expectations...to have no issue's....unless it's self induced...which has been known to happen.
__________________
2018 Black Rock 24kts, 300 watts Solar, 4-230ah gc2’s
2008 Dodge 3500 4x4, 6.7, delete, LB, 6 spd man. Firestone bags.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|