Towing 23DBS with Tundra

[cthorner]

Hi,

I just ordered my 23DBS and I am planing on towing it with my 2017 Tundra w/tow package and large fuel tank (38 Gal). According to the dealer (Apache RV, Portland) the Tundra can handle it, no problem.

When I got back home and was double checking the tow rating numbers I got pretty close to the limit with the Tundra's GVWR(7200lbs). The new 23DBS' have a hitch dry weight of 750 lbs(100 lbs lighter than last year), but still it's getting pretty close with myself, my wife, and two kids. Here is my math:

7200 lbs Tundra GVWR
- 300 lbs (38 Gal fuel)
- 5650 lbs (vehicle weight)
- 700 lbs (passengers, this is lower(400) than what I'm using here)
-------------
= 550 lbs (capacity, uh, really?)
-------------

With a WD hitch, I'm guessing I can add about 100 lbs capacity to that, so:

650 lbs capacity

Still, that's not much, and about 100lbs in the wrong direction from hitch _dry_ weight of the 23DBS.

Any Tundra owners out there that care to weigh in(pun intended)?

Also, I was looking at the Andersen WD which should reduce the hitch weight some and also reduce that dreaded bounce. Anyone have experience with that hitch?

Not sure that it matters for this, but aftermarket tires and lift:

Tires - Toyo OPEN COUNTRY C/T(w/sever snow rating) 35X12.50R18LT
Shocks - 3” lift with Bilstein 6112 in front and 5160 double reservoir in back set at highest setting

Is it a mistake to expect to be able to tow the 23DBS with my Tundra? Should I cancel my order and get a lesser and lighter trailer?

[alaska04]

I'll weigh in with my .02. I was a previous owner of a 2010 Tundra. We have a 2015 Creekside 23BHS. We live in Alaska and generally have very few flat roads. With my wife, kid and I and two big dogs, firewood and a full water tank, the Tundra pulled the camper ....OK. As with any gasser it will likely be screaming at you going up and over any mountain passes. Plus the Tundra's are a thirsty truck. I always ended up carrying a 5 gallon gas can just in case. We upgraded to a 2016 Ram Cummins and the towing experiences is so much nicer and much more relaxing. The wife wasn't happy with the upgraded to vehicles at the time but after the first trip when we could carry on a conversation when going up and over a mountain pass without yelling at each other, she was sold.

In short... can the Tundra tow the camper.... yes.

[Mordecai]

alaska guy I think hits the right note. I don't have experience with either your truck or trailer but my smaller trailer(20FQ) and higher capacity truck(F150) are as as close to capacity as I'd want to go. I think if you're just towing in the middle part of the country and willing to sit tight if it gets more than a little windy it'll probably do it, but there is no way you'll be within the on paper capacity numbers (payload, max gross weight, and rear axle) of your truck.

[cthorner]

Upgrading the truck is not in the cards for us right now, but I don't mind putting up with high reving engines. More concerned about the safety aspect and/or the ability to go where we want to go. We are rated for a 9200 lbs tow, so should be well within that at 6350 lbs dry(8000 lbs loaded?).

While looking up the Combined Weight rating(16000 lbs) I also came across a tongue weight of 980 lbs, so I guess I need to consider that as well. We might be ok there, but still bumping up against the GVWR number.

[fisher99]

I towed a trailer a little heavier than what you are looking at with my 2007 Tundra (with the 5.7 engine) and never had any problems. Plenty of power. Engine not "screaming" on hills. No bouncing. Aside from the small tank (you've already solved that) and fuel consumption, giving too short a range, I was very happy with the setup.

Then we upgraded to our larger and heavier (7,800 dry) Wind River, and while the power was still adequate (still no engine screaming), the bigger trailer caused more movement (including bounce) of the Tundra than I was comfortable with (and that was with an Anderson WD and sway control hitch). I considered adding air bags, which would have solved the bounce issue, but traded the Tundra for a Ram 3/4 ton (with Cummins diesel) instead. It was the right choice for us, but I realize that a new tow vehicle might not be an option for you. If you are going to be sticking with the Tundra for the next few years, and plan on doing more than just shorter camping trips, I would consider a smaller trailer.

[Mordecai]

It really is hard to figure out precisely what the numbers will be in re trailer and tongue weight until you get the rig on the scales. If you can travel with empty tanks(at least when going any distance)that will go a long way toward keeping you on the lighter side. Remember the hitch dry weight in the brochure does not include propane and batteries so loaded for a trip your tongue weight(which goes against payload) will probably be north of 1k without the WD bars or chains engaged and between 800-900 with.
I shelved my Andersen hitch and got an Equalizer 4-point. I think the Andersen would have worked if I was towing with an F250/350 but it didn't work well with my combo. It's possible I wasn't patient enough and could have tweeked it more but I didn't have the confidence in it's ability to handle the 1100lbs of tongue weight I was horsing around. It is nice and light though.
It would be a shame to pass up on an ORV if you can at all make it work. Ours has been fantastic so far and any questions that have come up have been promptly addressed by the factory. I bet you could tell the difference the moment you stepped into it, right?

[Indiana]

Looking at the numbers you quoted, I believe it doesn't give you a true picture of what you can tow. The curb weight of the vehicle shall be weighted with a full tank of fuel, preferable with passengers and camping gears. Taking that number away from the 7,200 GVW and that's the tongue weight + WDH you can handle.

In your calculation, I believe 38 US gal of gas only weighs 230# @ 6lb/gal. That'll give you a little wiggle room. However, the dry TW shall not be used for this purpose. I would use 12% of the 8000# GVW of the TT @960#. (Case in point: My TR 240RBS listed dry TW as 675#, I weighed it on a weekend trip with 4 ppl and belongings, fresh water tank & waste tanks almost empty and was surprised to see the TW @ 970# and the TT wt was only 200# short of the 8,300# GVWR).

Assuming you get the Anderson WDH which is prolly the lightest in the market, you are still looking at 1k# extra payload. BTW, using a WDH does not give you extra payload. If anything, you have to take into account of the hitch weight.

FWIW, if you looking at your number again: 7,200-5650-230-400=920

That's the remaining payload you have left for TW, WDH and camping gears. Can your Tundra tow it? It probably will since it has a capable engine. Will it exceed its payload? Most likely. A friend of mine owes a late model Tundra and tows a longer but lighter than mine TT (7,200# GVW). It sags a lot at the rear hitched up but he only tows a short distance from storage to a seasonal site in relatively flat terrain every year.

[cthorner]

Yeah, we really want this trailer and going down in size is not an option either. We tried that with a rental and realized the walk around bed was a must for us. I just realized that by the time the kids are heavy enough for it to be an issue, I'll probably have a bigger truck. So the 700 lbs in the passenger calculation is actually more like 500 lbs for the next five years or so. Those extra 200 lbs will get me where I need to be with the weight legally(I guess I'll be staying away from doughnuts), plus my tires(which is usually the weak link) are rated for much higher weight than stock tires.

Googling around I found that the WD hitch(standard 100 lbs) should not be included in the max hitch calculation per the V-5 standard, so we should be good there. I guess I'll be putting the firewood on the back of the trailer instead of in the bed. And I think I'll be going with the Equalizer or Blue Ox hitch. From what I'm seeing they have a little better WD capability than the Andersen hitch.

So, we are getting the trailer!

Thanks for all your responses. I'll let you all know how it went in a month or two when we get the trailer and get a chance to test it out.

[cthorner]

Indiana, didn't see your post until I had posted my last reply. Those are some good points. I just used water weight for my fuel calculations. So that'll buy me some extra margin. Hopefully it doesn't sag too much.

Mordecai, I totally agree about the quality of the ORVs. My wife kept saying "it just feels like it's better quality". Also, when I called ORV about this they seemed like the kind of people I won't regret doing business with: professional, helpful, honest, and knowledgeable. We went off-road tent camping near Mt Hood this weekend and it snowed, in June... We would have been just fine in our ORV.

[GoLeafsGo]

Don't forget that aftermarket suspension diminishes your factory payload and tow rating by at least 15%.

[Indiana]

Originally Posted by cthorner

Yeah, we really want this trailer and going down in size is not an option either. We tried that with a rental and realized the walk around bed was a must for us. I just realized that by the time the kids are heavy enough for it to be an issue, I'll probably have a bigger truck. So the 700 lbs in the passenger calculation is actually more like 500 lbs for the next five years or so. Those extra 200 lbs will get me where I need to be with the weight legally(I guess I'll be staying away from doughnuts), plus my tires(which is usually the weak link) are rated for much higher weight than stock tires.

Googling around I found that the WD hitch(standard 100 lbs) should not be included in the max hitch calculation per the V-5 standard, so we should be good there. I guess I'll be putting the firewood on the back of the trailer instead of in the bed. And I think I'll be going with the Equalizer or Blue Ox hitch. From what I'm seeing they have a little better WD capability than the Andersen hitch.

So, we are getting the trailer!

Thanks for all your responses. I'll let you all know how it went in a month or two when we get the trailer and get a chance to test it out.

I believe the V-5 calculation you mentioned for WD hitch is for sizing hitch capacity. Nonetheless, the hitch head is still a chunk of dead weight hanging out your rear bumper and it is part of the payload. If you end up getting Equal-i-zer, I use one, it's HEAVY.

[GoLeafsGo]

You won't like this but I'm just going to say it because I have kids, as you must based on your trailer choice, and I'd hate for you to get into a trailer you won't feel safe towing:

1. If you have to ask and count pounds and ounces - trust me, I've been there - then you really are trying to convince yourself against something you know deep down to be true. You're right - the ORVs are awesome trailers relative to what's available on this continent and I get the "want", but you should really think of the TT and TV as a pair, especially if you plan on doing any driving at elevation.

2. I just went through this with a Toyota Land Cruiser and a Creekside 21DBS. The LC's payload is only 120 pounds less than your Tundra, same engine. The 21DBS is lighter, shorter, and less tall than the 23 you're looking at. I can tell you, without a shadow of a doubt, that while you can tow it with the Tundra you will not be happy and your family will not be as safe.

[Off Road]

Here is my experience. I own a 23dbs and it is a great trailer. I used to own a 2008 Tundra. My wife and I hauled the 23dbs from Oregon to the Canadian Rockies and back the first summer I had it and I always felt safe. We had firewood, camp chairs, and a generator in the bed of the pickup. I even hauled it to Montana with a quad in the bed. My Tundra had a 2” leveling kit on the front and a 1” block on the rear as I used it as my hunting and 4 wheeling rig. I also put a little larger E rated tires on it. The truck did fine hauling the trailer even full of water and gear for a two week trip. The downside to the Tundra was its small fuel tank, not a problem for you, and the constant shifting of the transmission. I kept it in fifth gear but any small hill and it would shift into fourth gear and wind up. That gets tiresome on long trips.

When it came time to get a new company pickup I convinced the boss (myself) to get a 2500 Ram with the Cummins. The new truck is much more relaxing to drive but it is an American built POS. It has been in the shop more in 36500 miles than my Tundra was in 190,000 miles. I really have been pretty frustrated with all the reliability issues. I am just about ready to trade it in on another Tundra lol.

Anyway your Tundra will pull the 23dbs safely. You will probably want to go with 1200 pound bars on your weight distribution hitch. I went with 1000 pound bars and they were cranked all the way to get the nose of the Tundra where I wanted it. Lots of guys run air bags to help keep the soft rear sag to a minimum. Toyota is famous for putting soft springs on their pickups so they have a comfortable ride but it cuts down on load capacity. Don’t cancel your trailer order, we love ours.

[bneukam]

Personally, I would not haul that 23dbs with your Tundra. After you get loaded you will be over your trucks payload. You will probably be pushing it unloaded. I see many ORV in the NW, and they are all being towed with 3/4 ton trucks. Yes, it can haul it, but your not going to be happy with it.
Neighbor bought a 21fqs with a 17 Ford F-150 that had the max payload package. After three trips he now has a Ford F-250 in his driveway.