Considering a 2013 Fox Mountain 235LS 5th wheel

[SummerPerk]

I could really use some thoughts! My husband and I had been planning on purchasing a tow vehicle at the end of this year and a trailer in about 2 years. We love Outdoors RV and especially love the 21KVS floor plan.
A friend of the family is selling his 2013 Fox Mountain 235LS 5th wheel. It’s been taken out a total of 5 times, all short trips. Interior looks like new; stove never even used. Outside a few spots showing minor evidence of sitting out—it’s been stored under a tarp. No evidence of water intrusion. He has taken good care of it— it’s their third RV.
He is asking $21,000. Purchased from Apache in Portland (which is where we would take it if/when service is needed). He paid $33,000. He would give us all the “stuff” he’s purchased to go with it, including the hitch, which I believe was a couple thousand.
Is this too good a deal to pass up? It would go into storage until we move in about 5 years, and we probably still won’t get our tow vehicle until the end of this year. It’s a touch bigger than we originally wanted, and there is always the appeal of buying new, but aren’t opposed to buying used, especially when we know the history.
Would greatly appreciate any thoughts regarding the price and advice regarding this 5th wheel vs a new Outdoors RV trailer.

[Cumminsfan]

We have a 2013 FM 235. Bought it new from Thunder RV. The 235 is a great layout with a huge amount of storage inside. We've had very few problems with ours. Biggest was that front cap faded badly and we had to get it painted. The dinette cushions are terrible and only good for 20 mins before you hit the bottom. We're not heavy people either.
The rear jackknife sofa is worse. We removed both and put in recliners and a free standing table and two chairs.
The bedroom/bathroom area is very nice for showering and or just changing clothes.

We have been in the 21KVS and while the kitchen is cool, the rest is just so-so. Bathroom is cramped, only one place to sit and the entry door is at the foot of the bed, so all the stuff you track in you'll be walking over when getting in and out of bed. There would be too much rug shaking and floor sweeping needed IMO.
With our rear entry 235 everything you track in is semi contained at the rear of the coach. If you come in with wet shoes then you have to take them off somewhere.

JMHO if you're keen to ORV I would take a look at the Timber Ridge 22FQS. Good storage, nice size bathroom and more roomy inside than the 21KVS

High NADA book on a 2013 235 is around $14,600. Even though the one you're looking at is barely used, $21,000 seems a little high.
If he paid $33K then he paid close to MSRP. He should've got it for around $25K new

FWIW we tow our 235 with a 2018 Ram 2500 6.4 Hemi. It's a good match for the 235. Originally we towed it with a 2012 Ram 2500 diesel for 6 seasons. Towed it like it wasn't there so to speak. The 6.4 gas works harder. We live in Oregon and tow all over. Lots of hills and mtns to go over. Both trucks get/got the job done easily. We're around 9,300 lbs loaded with a pin weight around 1800 lbs. We pack a fair amount of stuff since we dry camp a lot.

[Yosemite77]

My advice would be to take a pass. Unless you are storing it indoors, which can be expensive, sitting outside 5 years unused can be tough on a trailer. Sun, water and vermin can and do all take their toll. I also think the price is a bit high. Would you pay insure and license it during that time? If so, more money. Most importantly, it’s not your “dream” floorplan. For me, that alone would be a dealbreaker.

[SummerPerk]

Thank you both for your replies. It’s been confusing trying to determine value—-I did at one point see the NADA value, but that was very inconsistent with other sources that listed it much higher. Used ones are posted for around $25,000. But is NADA the common standard? Yikes!
He also called us and said he would be willing to sell his tow vehicle as well: 2002 Ford F 250 XLT diesel, 4 wheel drive, 70,000 miles and well cared for. $9,000 is what we offered.
This means for $29,000 we would be ready to hit the road now vs $90,000+ for a new trailer (we wouldn’t buy used from a stranger) and new truck, and it still being several years down the road. For this price, we could figure out what exactly we want in a tow vehicle (in love w/the new Dodge Ram!), and purchase new in a few years. The layout of the 235 RLS has definitely grown on us, as well as the idea of a 5th wheel vs trailer. We are in Oregon as well. Husband would love diesel, but the new ones are out of our price range, so this one being diesel definitely sweetens the deal.
They did remove the sofa and replaced it with high quality recliners. Kitchen faucet updated and he warned us that we needed to wax the end cap yearly and it was prone to fading.
Unfortunately, he did pay close to MSRVP—we have seen the sales receipt. There were some upgrades, but he paid more than he should have.
We are going to test drive the truck this week. I do want a fair deal for both parties. Any further thoughts with that additional information?
And thank for sharing your thoughts regarding ORV—some things we hadn’t considered....

[Bob_C]

I wouldn't tarp it....instead I'd get 2 cans of Nu Finish and wax it.....the stuff lasts a year, if you use car wash soap......mine sits out, but I keep it washed and treated....Make sure the trans fluid looks good, trans shifts proper...and I wouldn't let others dictate price...if it was me and I liked it, I'd buy it....you'd be the ones using it.....

[SummerPerk]

Bob Caldwell, yes—we are feeling pretty optimistic about moving forward. I think we may be getting a great deal on the truck; sounds like he’s getting a great deal for his camper and doesn’t have the hassle of selling it on the market, and it will all more or less equal out as I know we are getting as much “stuff” as we could want thrown in from his many years of rv’ing. Regardless, it’s a price we can live with. He’s also good with storing the camper for us for a couple of months while we get used to the handling of the truck and sort out storage. It will be nice having it hooked up at someone’s home to spend a few weekends learning the systems and sorting out what needs repair/maintenance. We will be waxing it, but what is your reasoning behind not covering it with a tarp? He does have one—I know they are a hassle to take on and off, but any other reasons?

Cummingsfan: I’m going to highjack my own thread, but since you’re a fellow Oregonian and have experience w/the FM 235...any suggestions for easy first campgrounds within an hour or two of PDX? We were thinking maybe even just in the Gorge for our first trip. Big switch for us as car campers that usually stay in smaller Forest Service campgrounds. We tend toward Hood more than the coast for local camping and go to Central Oregon frequently.
I’m researching insurance today— any positive/negative experiences with particular companies?
Also, I’m guessing you store at home, but if you know of any storage areas in the Portland/Vancouver area that are good/bad, would love to hear. Indoor storage is cost prohibitive so it will be outdoors. I live in the Beaverton area; husband lives in Washougal during the week (due to our work commutes). We found a place in Camas and another in N Bonneville that we need to find some reviews on and check out in person.

[Bob_C]

The tarps sweat, and flop around in the wind, is the main reason....there's a really nice county park out around Boring......google Clackamas county parks.....

[Cumminsfan]

Can't help with Portland area parks. Maybe Maryhill St park or Peach Beach RV park up near Biggs Junction.
Champoeg is close and so is Stub Stewart St park.

We're central Oregon dry campers as well but do frequent RV Parks, St parks and the such on occasion. Just depends on whats in the area we're headed to.

As far as the front cap fading. You can't stop the fading unless you paint it.
Mine started fading after 18 months. I ended up getting it painted locally. $1400.

Unless new tires were put on in the last year or so then I'd get new tires as well. It seems that tire MFG recommend new ST tires after 5-7 years.

Goodyear Endurance would be a good choice.

If the truck checks out then the package for $29 seems fair to me. A 2002 will have the 7.3 Powerstroke which many seem to love. One way to look at it is you're basically getting a turn key setup. That will make it easy to jump in.

Really hard to get a good used value on FM 235's as there's rarely any for sale.
Good luck with your decision.

[SummerPerk]

Thanks again! Forgot about Champoeg—that would be an easy first run.
Thanks for the heads up on the tires. Have found numerous checklists to help us go through everything. Will be a steep learning curve but we’re in no rush and looking forward to getting to know her!
Spent yesterday afternoon at an “insurance lounge” and the end result was better than expected (bundling all w/Progressive except 5th wheel w/Safeco so can get full point of sale price if something happens).
Test driving the truck tomorrow—am optimistic—He’s meticulous in his care of vehicles and record keeping. Then heading to SunRiver for a few days of R&R and to talk everything over and make our final decision!

[Cumminsfan]

Hope it works out. Both are popular items so re-selling shouldn't be a problem if you change your mind at a later date.

[SummerPerk]

Well, we called the seller today to remind him we were coming out this afternoon to test drive the pickup. He lets us know he has changed his mind and is only going to sell the trailer. We said that unfortunately that won’t work since we lack a tow vehicle at this time and wish him the best and hang up feeling disappointed.
Ten minutes later he calls again and tells us to come on out—deal is back on!

So we take it out for a test drive and it handles beautifully. Husband had a big grin on his face the whole time. Driver’s window not working but otherwise in good shape. We go inside to talk and he tells us the original price we agreed on is way too low. I give him the NADA printout showing average retail price for the trailer is actually $14,000 vs the $20,000 we had spoken about, and agree $9,000 for the truck is too low—blue book around $12,000ish but a total of $29,000 for both is reasonable. He again let’s us know that the truck is worth much more but doesn’t have a counter offer so we agree to all think about it, let him do some reasearch, and we’ll talk again soon.

So unfortunately, this may not happen for us. We’re okay with that though. I have read so many positive reviews of the 235RLS and was pretty excited about it, but it’s also a bit bigger than we wanted and just can’t justify spending that much on a 2013 when we are seeing some newer used Arctic Foxes for near that and a new ORV for just $10,000 more. It’s very appealing to purchase the complete setup, but although powerful, I’m not sure how comfortable the truck would be in a long distant trip. Great for heading up to Mt Hood, but maybe not so much to Yellowstone.

So we’ll see. It’s going to be fine either way. We are willing to go up a little in price, ($31,000??), but I suspect he’s going to ask $35,000, which is too high. It’s been a valuable experience though—I now have done my initial foray into insurance, the advice about the tire replacement has influenced our decision, and it’s opened our minds to considering used, looking at 5th wheels, and taking a closer look at the other Northwood products.
Thank you so much everyone! Your experience and knowledge is invaluable and the time you take to share it is appreciated. I’ll keep you posted!

[SummerPerk]

I left this thread hanging--
We did end up purchasing the Arctic Fox--for $14,000. Thinking we were really fortunate with the price! Still haven't purchased our tow vehicle. Most likely going w/a 2500 Dodge Ram. Really wanted a 2019 (likely Big Horn but considering Tradesman), but spent some time today at the dealership and realized our ideal (single cab, 8 ft bed, safety features) would have to be ordered=$$$. So now we are looking for a good deal on a 2018 crew cab w/6.4 bed (apparently single cabs are hard to find) and now researching sliding hitches due to the shorter bed (crew cab w/8 ft bed just too long). So much to learn--one thing just leads to another!
If anyone has recommendations for RAM dealers or sliding hitches (looks like auto is the way to go?), am certainly all ears. Currently looking at Dave's in Idaho (but I don't think they have what we want in stock) or joining Costco to try going through them. In the meantime, pouring over the forums....

[CalCamp]

Originally Posted by SummerPerk

Currently looking at Dave's in Idaho (but I don't think they have what we want in stock) ...

It is very much well worth it to give Dave's a call or chat live online. That is where I bought mine and received a great deal, much better than local dealers who had just a few in stock and would have to ship something in.

If you have a friend that has purchased their rig there, tell Dave's they recommended you and they will send him a surprise in the mail. Dave's has over 500 employees and I don't remember how many parking lots throughout town and use a database to keep track of where everything is. Its quite a remarkable dealer (largest RAM dealer). They can also sell and install the hitch.

Back to morning brew . . .

[SummerPerk]

Very good! Thank you! If you'd like me to use your name as having recommended, feel free to message me your info. I was also looking at Dennis Dillon's in Idaho--their prices seem even better, including on 2019's.
Any suggestions on non-negotiable options already installed regarding what we need to have for towing safely other than diesel 4x4 that we aren't going to be able to remedy once purchased?
And what about sales tax? Do I need to plan on paying an additional 6% sales tax?