Community Forums

sploke · 07-10-2022, 06:54 PM

Good progress this weekend... Got the bellhousing split from the motor and got the torque converter pulled. The trans fluid was a little glittery, so I'm going to drop the pan and see how everything looks once it's back together, and replace the filter. Once that's back together, it will be waiting for the shocks and torsion bar adjusters to get the front end back together, get everything checked and lubed, then move to the rear axles for the brakes.

JNSNWT · 07-10-2022, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sploke

if there's a way to R&R the existing tank, or if I'm going to have to spring for a new replacement. .

How about sandblasting and painting the original tank then replacing all the fittings. They are standard propane fittings.

Daveinet · 07-11-2022, 06:34 AM

I hope while you have it a part that you are replacing the A-frame bushings. I also don't recall if you have replaced the ball joints. I assume you are aware of the lower ball joint upgrade to use the Hummer H1 lower ball joint. Its a heavier ball joint and comes with a grease fitting - something the original did not have.

sploke · 07-11-2022, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JNSNWT

How about sandblasting and painting the original tank then replacing all the fittings. They are standard propane fittings.

I ended up finding a local propane place that was able to clean up and repaint the tank, and replace all the fittings. Cost me a pretty penny, but at least I avoided having to fab custom bracketry for a new tank.

I called around a little bit to try and source a new replacement...apparently Manchester is so backlogged with RV tank orders, they wouldn't even entertain accepting a one-off order for at least 6 months out. I'm glad I was able to clean up the original tank.

sploke · 07-11-2022, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveinet

I hope while you have it a part that you are replacing the A-frame bushings. I also don't recall if you have replaced the ball joints. I assume you are aware of the lower ball joint upgrade to use the Hummer H1 lower ball joint. Its a heavier ball joint and comes with a grease fitting - something the original did not have.

Would that be ACDelco P/N 45D2222 listed here:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...ll+joint,10070

Edit: just went out to check...my lower ball joints have zerk fittings on them so it looks like this conversion has already been done. Score!

Daveinet · 07-11-2022, 05:59 PM

Most likely then yes. To do the install, you need to drill the mounting bolt holes, so I would loosen just one of the nuts to see if the holes were drilled to the larger size. The new hole would be offset from the old hole. Yes, the hole should be round, as it overlaps the old hole, but just not centered where the old hole was. I don't know what the old or the new size is, as it was too many years ago when I did mine.

sploke · 07-15-2022, 07:08 AM

Been a busy couple of days.

I got the transmission disconnected and backed up, pulled out the old torque converter and got the new one in.

New front shocks are in. No signs of cracking, bending, or stress in any of the shock mounts, so I left well enough alone for the time being. I had to get a little creative with bushings, because on the Bilsteins, the top eye was smaller than stock and the bottom eye was larger. We made it work. The old shocks were some Monroe replacements and were COMPLETELY blown out.

Spent some time under the front end and got all the lube points greased up...of which there are many.

I got the new torsion bar adjusters from SuspensionMaxx. Pretty nice little bit of kit, those are. The passenger side went in easy peasy. The driver's side is giving me hell for some reason. There are two little ridges inside the frame that carries the adjusters, that the top of the adjuster is supposed to sit in between to keep it and the torsion bar centered in the hole in the frame. There's a bit of sideways pressure on the torsion bar which isn't letting the adjuster pop into place in between the ridges. It's riding on top of one of them and not allowing proper adjustment, and somehow got wedged into place. I'm going to mess with it some more today to see if I can get it to pop into place, otherwise I'm stuck taking the whole thing apart and reassembling again.

Once that's done I'll fire it up on the jackstands and run everything to make sure the transmission and suspension are all sound under no load before putting it back down.

I got the disc brake conversion kits, so as soon as the front is back together and back on the ground I'll start that swap.

I'm really looking forward to the ride home once we get all this stuff buttoned up...aside from the crazy bouncing and the TC shudder, the bus ran and rode really well. I'm excited to drive it with the upgrades.

I also somehow got my wife to agree than an older Wrangler would make a good toad. I'd like a pre-2006 (CJ, TJ, YJ), 4L manual, which are not all that common. I've found a few for sale back in CT, but the frames are all just rotted to pieces. While we're in CA for the summer, if it works out, we might be able to find a clean one out here and tow it back. That might be a little optimistic....find a truck, get a baseplate and towing setup installed, get braking all hooked up....we'll see. What's another project, right?

Daveinet · 07-15-2022, 08:56 PM

So when you convert to disc, you have to remove the proportioning valve. The reason is that within the valve is a residual pressure valve that maintains 10 lbs of pressure in the rear lines to keep the shoes close to the drum. If that pressure valve is not removed, it will wear out the pads for the disc brakes. You may also put an adjustable limit valve to keep the rear most axle from locking up under harder breaking. (Wheel rotation takes the weight off the rear most axle)

If you chose to install brakes on the toad, go with Nightshift Auto Ready Brake. Its a simple system that works better than just about anything else. It is the only closed loop braking system out there. An early CJ is super light, so with converting to disc, you may not care.

sploke · 07-15-2022, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveinet

So when you convert to disc, you have to remove the proportioning valve. The reason is that within the valve is a residual pressure valve that maintains 10 lbs of pressure in the rear lines to keep the shoes close to the drum. If that pressure valve is not removed, it will wear out the pads for the disc brakes. You may also put an adjustable limit valve to keep the rear most axle from locking up under harder breaking. (Wheel rotation takes the weight off the rear most axle)

If you chose to install brakes on the toad, go with Nightshift Auto Ready Brake. Its a simple system that works better than just about anything else. It is the only closed loop braking system out there. An early CJ is super light, so with converting to disc, you may not care.

Thanks for the tips. Looks like that braking system needs a receiver hitch. My Revcon has a welded-on ball hitch. At some point I want to cut it off and weld on a proper receiver hitch...I wasn't sure if that was a stock thing or something a previous owner added.

Daveinet · 07-16-2022, 10:50 AM

I towed an XJ which is also very lightweight with stock brakes. It wasn't the end of the world. It was only when I started towing the WJ that I installed towed brakes. If I had done the disc conversion first, I don't know if I would have bothered. The guy I sold it to towed a mini van on a dolly with no brakes on the dolly or on the toad. He went all through the Appellation Mountains and said it did just fine with no trouble getting stopped. When you do the disc conversion, you are way over kill on your braking capability. Each axle carries about 4500 lbs on it. The disc brakes are rated for an 8,000 lbs load, so they are almost double the capacity. This means you have 7000 lbs reserve braking capacity. That is why I was able to drop from 100 mph to 80 mph with only about 6 car lengths in front of me with no brake fade.

I'll add mine had a vacuum booster for the rears, so my peddle effort was like a small car.

Something else to look into. When I towed the XJ it wasn't bad, but when I switched to the WJ, it gave me severe understeer. This was completely resolved by installing a rear trac bar. If you are good at welding, you should easily be able to fabricate one. I dropped a 1/4 angle iron from the frame down about 6 inches. On the other side, I welded a bolt to the top of the leaf spring plate where it mounts to the center pivot for the walking beam. The bar just had nuts welded in the ends, so I could thread in swivel bearings and adjust the width. Easy to do and worked well.

sploke · 07-20-2022, 08:27 AM

Well, not ideal news on the transmission. The new TC helped, but didn't completely resolve the noise and vibration issue in the trans. We pulled it back out and started tearing into it. The clutches in the direct clutch drum are fried. The frictions are black and the steels are all warped. The forward clutch seemed ok. So, getting a full-up stage 1 rebuild with the red frictions and the kolene coated steels from Raybestos.

In the meantime, we're continuing on with the rear shocks and rear disc conversion. Got one side almost buttoned up, I need to pick up some brake hose to hook up the new calipers and the new proportioning valve is on the way.

Daveinet · 07-22-2022, 01:24 PM

Too bad you weren't closer to Chicago. I'd give you my old trans. The only issue it had was the drainback valve leaked, so when it sat for more than a few weeks, you had to let it idle for a bit to fill the torque converter. Otherwise the engine would just spin and not go anywhere. You let it idle for about a minute and then it was fine.

The OEM trans has Kevlar bands in it, as well as straight cut gears in first and second. This is stronger, but makes it whine until you hit third.

If you really wanted fun, you can always drop a 4L85e in it. Its nearly bolt in. You just have to steal the output shaft from your old trans and install it in the new one. Move the trans mount back so the front bolt lines up with the back hole. Machine a 7/8s inch spacer between the output case and the transfer case. Extend the driveshaft and you are good to go - well sort of, you have to make sure the 4L85e has the rear reluctor ring installed and also buy an after market trans controller. But otherwise it drops right in...lol.

sploke · 07-25-2022, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveinet

Too bad you weren't closer to Chicago. I'd give you my old trans. The only issue it had was the drainback valve leaked, so when it sat for more than a few weeks, you had to let it idle for a bit to fill the torque converter. Otherwise the engine would just spin and not go anywhere. You let it idle for about a minute and then it was fine.

The OEM trans has Kevlar bands in it, as well as straight cut gears in first and second. This is stronger, but makes it whine until you hit third.

If you really wanted fun, you can always drop a 4L85e in it. Its nearly bolt in. You just have to steal the output shaft from your old trans and install it in the new one. Move the trans mount back so the front bolt lines up with the back hole. Machine a 7/8s inch spacer between the output case and the transfer case. Extend the driveshaft and you are good to go - well sort of, you have to make sure the 4L85e has the rear reluctor ring installed and also buy an after market trans controller. But otherwise it drops right in...lol.

Hah yeah I thought about it, but nixed it mostly due to the extra cost of the electronic controller. If I upgrade to an ECU motor, that will be the time I consider that change as well.

Daveinet · 07-26-2022, 07:45 AM

Yah, 750 bucks. I would also say you need a little more torque than the stock 454 can provide, especially if you are towing. Even swapping the chain case gears, I still think you might be turning too low an RPM at 60. Of course who drives 60 in a Revcon? On the other hand, having a lockup TC is kind of nice.