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Old 09-23-2020, 01:28 PM   #1
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I found this interesting even with the big words

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...rus-mutations/

Actually I found it fascinating because the virus is apolitical and very efficient.
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:05 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wroughtnharv View Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...rus-mutations/

Actually I found it fascinating because the virus is apolitical and very efficient.
Thanks for posting that. I'm actually more curious as to how all of the precautions that most people are taking will impact the usual seasonal flu. I'm thinking we should see a dramatic decrease in flu cases as a side effect.

T'will be interesting either way.

Ray
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Old 09-23-2020, 03:12 PM   #3
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I recently read an article about Australia, whose winter just ended. Apparently they had the best flu season ever (I e., fewest flu infections), which they’re crediting their Covid-19 precautions for making possible.

Am I allowed to say here that masks evidently work?
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:54 PM   #4
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I subscribe to The Atlantic. Like all major print media they have a policy of free access to any and all articles involving Covid. The smartest voice I’ve heard on the topic is Ed Yong who has been on top of this early on. He’s an amazing writer and his God given talent is taking complicated topics and breaking them down into understandable descriptions. I can’t recommend The Atlantic and especially Ed Yong enough.

If you find his work interesting there are podcasts out there of interviews of him on topic from NPR etc. KERA Dallas has one of the best interviewers in the world, Think with Krys Boyd. Her podcasts with Ed are a true treat. I like to think that the reason Think is on KAWC lunch time is partially my fault because I kept recommending they pick her up. We support PBS and NPR here in north Texas, Oklahoma, Flagstaff AZ, and Yuma AZ. They’ve all given us driveway moments, that’s when you’re so engrossed in a story that you sit in the truck in the driveway until it is over.

I hope this isn’t considered too political and others find some of the sources as interesting and reliable as I have.
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Old 09-24-2020, 12:40 AM   #5
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....

Am I allowed to say here that masks evidently work?
It is a free county, I will defend your right to say whatever you want within the bounds of not endangering others.

If there was some science behind your statement, I would find it more useful.

As far as the science in the original link, there is nothing useful. Maybe this, may that is not science.

When It comes to safety, I assume how you wear a mask does not work to protect my safety.

There are better ways of reducing my risk.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:13 AM   #6
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As far as the science in the original link, there is nothing useful. Maybe this, may that is not science.

When It comes to safety, I assume how you wear a mask does not work to protect my safety.

There are better ways of reducing my risk.
Oh, masks make a difference, there's no doubt about that. Perhaps this article will reference enough scientific studies on the issue to help persuade you:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent

And how you wear a mask is critical: if you pull it down so your nose is hanging out in the air, obviously your exhaled aerosols can spread. If you're infected and inside, this will pose a real danger to others in the area.

Wearing a mask is actually more for the benefit of those around you than for your own protection, though studies indicate that even cloth masks do help filter out tiny water droplets that might contain the virus.

But if we all wear masks when around others, we all enjoy increased protection from the virus. Some view this small sacrifice as an infringement of liberty. That's true to an extent-- we do forfeit the liberty of doing exactly what would make us more comfortable in the moment. In exchange, we get the liberty of being safer from the virus and the feeling that we are doing the right thing for our fellow countrymen, loved ones and family.

To me, wearing a mask is a small sacrifice. I'd feel really awful if I unknowingly passed the virus to someone else, and I'd feel really bad if I found out that person got terribly sick or died.

Just my $.02.
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Old 09-25-2020, 08:55 AM   #7
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Oh, masks make a difference, there's no doubt about that. Perhaps this article will reference enough scientific studies on the issue to help persuade you:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent

And how you wear a mask is critical: if you pull it down so your nose is hanging out in the air, obviously your exhaled aerosols can spread. If you're infected and inside, this will pose a real danger to others in the area.

Wearing a mask is actually more for the benefit of those around you than for your own protection, though studies indicate that even cloth masks do help filter out tiny water droplets that might contain the virus.

But if we all wear masks when around others, we all enjoy increased protection from the virus. Some view this small sacrifice as an infringement of liberty. That's true to an extent-- we do forfeit the liberty of doing exactly what would make us more comfortable in the moment. In exchange, we get the liberty of being safer from the virus and the feeling that we are doing the right thing for our fellow countrymen, loved ones and family.

To me, wearing a mask is a small sacrifice. I'd feel really awful if I unknowingly passed the virus to someone else, and I'd feel really bad if I found out that person got terribly sick or died.

Just my $.02.
The issue for me is that "it is a small sacrifice" can be applied to virtually everything. We could save lives and prevent injuries if we just lowered the speed limit to 30 MPH. To many people that would be a "small sacrifice". Sugary products could be banned, that would be a "small sacrifice" that would ultimately save more lives than wiping COVID out completely since obesity is estimated to be a factor in over 800,000 US deaths annually, which is 4 times the deaths from COVID. Heck, it is estimated that 40,000 people seek medical treatment for golf injuries each year, should golf be banned or the equipment reduced to foam balls and soft plastic clubs to protect those 40,000?
We have already seen that the boundaries of mask wearing are being stretched at both ends. There are people who blatantly disregard wearing masks in public and actions to enforce mask wearing being taken to extremes. There have been customers physically assaulting store employees who have tried to enforce mask policies and there have been people who have physically assaulted people who were not wearing masks while they were sitting alone outside. What the proper boundaries are is an open question.
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Old 09-25-2020, 11:15 AM   #8
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The issue for me is that "it is a small sacrifice" can be applied to virtually everything. We could save lives and prevent injuries if we just lowered the speed limit to 30 MPH.

We have already seen that the boundaries of mask wearing are being stretched at both ends. There are people who blatantly disregard wearing masks in public and actions.... and there have been people who have physically assaulted people who were not wearing masks while they were sitting alone outside. What the proper boundaries are is an open question.
kcdogger, you make a valid point that the 'small sacrifices' approach could be applied to a range of threats that people in our country-- and around the world-- face.

I would say that reducing the speed limit to 30mph would not yield a cost-benefit that makes sense. Reckless drivers would still speed (and maybe drink as well) despite the law... and the rest of us who drive on Interstates at 30 instead of 65mph would probably see only a minor decrease in highway deaths. Plus, we'd all be perpetually and deeply frustrated whenever we took a trip if we had to crawl along at 30 all the time. I think most of how safe we feel while driving comes from how defensive and careful we drive... though admittedly we can't control the risks we face from someone's else's recklessness. And even draconian traffic laws won't make a careless, heedless driver act responsibly.

And, yes, sugar and fatty junk foods surely contribute to obesity. But you and I don't have to consume them in excess, and by controlling what we eat, we can ensure that our bodies stay healthier. If someone eats junk food all the time, they hurt only themselves... but if, during this period of widespread Covid-19 contagion, people refuse to wear masks or social distance responsibly, they endanger not only themselves, but all other they come into contact with... including their family and friends. That's not very considerate.

So... to your point about determining proper boundaries. I don't think it's all that complicated:

1. Wear a mask when you go to a public venue like a supermarket, big box store, post office, library, other retail store, etc.

2. Wear a mask when you're outside and near other people: busy sidewalks or multi-use paths, parks, city or town streets, campgrounds.

3. Don't threaten violence to anyone. If someone is being reckless, ask them nicely to please put on a mask. Keep it civil.

Basically, that's it. We cannot legislate people being kind and considerate. Here in Maine, at least in the southern part of the state near the coast, people almost universally wear masks outdoors if they are at all near others. In the northern and western parts of the state (more rural), it's the exact opposite. Not much you can do about that.

There was a wedding in northern Maine in early August that made national news. 70 people attended (the maximum gathering at that time was 50). No one wore masks. Someone had Covid. So far more than 170 have contracted the virus from that event and 7 people have died. Here's a link to the story: https://www.startribune.com/1-weddin...say/572430912/

Would you say wearing a mask to that event was an unacceptable violation of your liberty or a sensible health precaution?

Thanks for reading this with an open mind!
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Old 09-26-2020, 12:21 AM   #9
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...
To me, wearing a mask is a small sacrifice. I'd feel really awful......

Just my $.02.
To me wearing a mask is a huge goverment intrusion in our everyday life with dubious benefit.

When my wife died I felt awful. Her cousin is close to dying as is her brother. I am going to go visit and we will will hug.

For this reason and many others, I take precautions that are very effective compared to wearing a mask.

If a person immune system is such that being exposed to a virus result in death , the only things that precaution will do is delay when they die.
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Old 09-26-2020, 05:08 AM   #10
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This thread is not about mask wearing. Keep the discussion on the topic or it will be closed.
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