Pfizer FDA Approval

[propchef]

Originally Posted by inthepines

No it doesnt affect my choice.
Now if they want to promise free health care for any side effects I would strongly consider it.
Of course it wont matter if I drop dead after getting it like others have.
Otherwise, we all have an expiration date and if the thunder dont get you the lightning will..
Stay safe out there vaccinated or not you can be a carrier and we all need to be cautious...

Free health care for a sore arm? For Feeling down for two days? Well, ok, but it seems minor to me.

The CDC reports no adverse effects related to the Pfizer vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ogenicity.html

[smiller]

Originally Posted by tap4154

Me bcanwhile, they are ordering livestock worm medication and malaria drugs, because someone on Facebook said they worked...

I know, it would be hilarious if it weren't so sad. They'll consider a livestock dewormer (or whatever the miracle cure de jour happens to be) because someone mentioned it on Facebook, but won't take the vaccine because it is... wait for it... 'unproven'.

[tap4154]

Originally Posted by inthepines

No it doesnt affect my choice.
Now if they want to promise free health care for any side effects I would strongly consider it.
Of course it wont matter if I drop dead after getting it like others have.
Otherwise, we all have an expiration date and if the thunder dont get you the lightning will..
Stay safe out there vaccinated or not you can be a carrier and we all need to be cautious...

Strong side effects to the vaccines are very very very rare. Of course this is as long as you don't read all the misinformation on Facebook and elsewhere. I know many people that have been vaccinated, and only one had bad side effects for 2 days, then she was back to normal. The vast majority I know, and have talked to as I work in people's homes, just had a sore arm for a day and a half, and sometimes a little lethargy. I basically just had a sore arm both times, and a little bit tired for a day.

When you see the people now that are being put on ventilators, regretful that they didn't get vaccinated, I would hope that would make people think twice. And this round they're much younger. Of course the reason for that is the vast majority of we folks over 65 are vaccinated. And once you go on a ventilator, the chances of coming off it are very low.

Plus look at the doctor's and nurses point of view. They've been fighting this for over a year and a half now, and 98% of the folks coming in sick are unvaccinated.

One doctor said he's no longer going to treat anyone that had access to the vaccine and didn't take it. He said he just can't take watching people die like this anymore. It's a very cruel death

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by twogypsies

Young folks are being affected ......[/URL]

But they are not dying!

Did you read the study? Can you provide a link?

If you you want people to take action you have to do more than link the local TV station.

I say young people are not dying but you tell me some have a headache.

I did read the UA press that your local TV station did a bad job of reporting on.

I have all the symptoms without having covid. It is because I am old.

Living takes a toll on all of us. I started the day taking something for pain.

Then I went sailing.

I am not going to stop enjoying life because of pain or fear. I also know that fresh air, sunshine, and exercise are good for me.

[tap4154]

Originally Posted by followingsea

But they are not dying!

Did you read the study? Can you provide a link?

If you you want people to take action you have to do more than link the local TV station.

I say young people are not dying but you tell me some have a headache.

I did read the UA press that your local TV station did a bad job of reporting on.

I have all the symptoms without having covid. It is because I am old.

Living takes a toll on all of us. I started the day taking something for pain.

Then I went sailing.

I am not going to stop enjoying life because of pain or fear. I also know that fresh air, sunshine, and exercise are good for me.

I didn't want to stop enjoying life either, that's why I got vaccinated as soon as I could. Why do you think you have to stop enjoying life if you get vaccinated? Once I got vaccinated, after a couple of weeks after the second shot, I felt free to go out and do many things I wasn't doing.

[baraff]

Originally Posted by vtwinwilly

That sounds strangely Orwellian!

Or to also draw from Star Trek.
“We are the Borg. Resistance is futile!”

[emoji12]

But it won't be the Federal government mandating vaccinations. It's going to be driven by private enterprise for the most part, maybe some local government. Isn't that what all this "freedom to choose" is all about? Keep government out of it? Free enterprise?

That's what will happen. You can't have it both ways.

[tap4154]

Getting vaccinated = freedom.

[astrnmrtom]

Nahhh. Don't expect it to change very many people's minds.

The pushback against vaccines is simply due to their effectiveness. The populations of first world countries have been free of killer pandemics for too long. Covid simply hasn't been deadly enough - it hasn't become personal for enough people from a health standpoint. Every once in a while nature decides to cull the herd. At this point, Covid isn't one of the those times. It might take off and become one, or it may peter out and become like the flu. The risk with that is when something similar, but more deadly shows up. People will view the warning like chicken little saying the sky is falling - again.

110 years most people directly saw the effects of the flu pandemic. It killed their family members and their neighbors. They huddled in their houses in fear and drank teaspoons of kerosene to prevent the disease. Covid started as an old person's disease and that idea has stuck. You can show pictures of younger people getting it and dying, but those pictures aren't personal because the numbers are still too low. It's a lot like warning kids about the danger of drugs, or drinking and driving. All your friends are doing it and no-one is dying, the deaths always happen to someone else.

The other thing that hampers vaccines is a known human trait. It's very common in many risk taking situations. It's known as "Future Discounting." It's what the brain does when faced with risk in the future, especially if that risk is placed against a positive outcome now. A great example of Future Discounting was the sub prime mortgage. A buyer may perfectly understand that there's a significant risk in the future, for low payments now. The brain heavily "discounts" the risk because it lies in the future. The reward is the keys to that nice new house now, even if you know at some point the interest may rise making the payment unaffordable.

Covid plays on a slightly modified version of that same principal, and all the statistics, the vaccine rating, and photos of people who regretted not getting vaccinated have little effect because they aren't personal, and the risk of getting it lies in the future. The fact that Covid isn't deadly enough for enough people to see the results first hand, adds to that discounting. Instead of a reward now, like keys to a house, it's the perceived loss of one's freedom that's the now. Just those two factors play heavily on the resistance to the vaccine.

Changing the status of the vaccine does not change the factors above.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by tap4154

..... Of course this is as long as you don't read all the misinformation on Facebook and elsewhere. ......

One doctor said he's no longer going to treat anyone that had access to the vaccine and didn't take it. He said he just can't take watching people die like this anymore. It's a very cruel death

I look at what you wrote and it does not look like information to support your position.

For example, I had 'one doctor' make a 'moral' judgement about me. I was in bootcamp and he got to close. After I got him by the tie, he changed his mind.

Would it be 'moral' to not treat a smoker dying of lung cancer?

Death is often cruel. It is hard to watch. It would also be cruel to not be there for the dying person.

Covid-19 is new. But each year there is a new strain of the flu and the vaccine is a best guess of what the strain would be.

In the past, I have generally got a flu shot without giving it much thought.

However, I think that it is a personal choice depending on each person's situation. I do not buy the 'greater good argument' that applies to things like polio and smallpox.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by astrnmrtom

.... Every once in a while nature decides to cull the herd. .....

Thank you for the well thought post.

I think nature is no longer 'culling the herd'. Medical and other advances can prevent it. For example, crop failures in one part of the world do not result in starvation because food can be shipped in. Unfortunately, starvation does occur because of wars.

Fear of a culling pandemic may have driven reaction to covid.

[arcaguy]

Originally Posted by followingsea

I do not buy the 'greater good argument' that applies to things like polio and smallpox.

And the difference between polio, smallpox and Covid are? There are no differences, except for the body systems they affect, they are all deadly or debilitating diseases.

[tmandoug1]

Originally Posted by propchef

Free health care for a sore arm? For Feeling down for two days? Well, ok, but it seems minor to me.

The CDC reports no adverse effects related to the Pfizer vaccine. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ogenicity.html

See thats the point most don't get....adverse today or do they actually know the long term side affects. FDA doesn't take that into account when they approve the drugs becuse they don't know them. FDA approved just mean they have met certain guidelines for cleanliness, safety, and other such processes.

[Extarheel]

Originally Posted by tap4154

It will allow businesses to be able to mandate vaccines, but I don't think it will convince many people who were already believing all the conspiracy theories. The big spin now from the internet misinformers is that it was approved too quickly.

Meanwhile, they are ordering livestock worm medication and malaria drugs, because someone on Facebook said they worked...

Actually its not just Facebook recommending worm meds. There are pundits on national TV doing it as well, or maybe they were recommending it first, then it went to Facebook. Either way I agree it is truly unfortunate that there are no consequences for those endangering others, no matter their gullibility.

[propchef]

Originally Posted by tmandoug1

See thats the point most don't get....adverse today or do they actually know the long term side affects. FDA doesn't take that into account when they approve the drugs becuse they don't know them. FDA approved just mean they have met certain guidelines for cleanliness, safety, and other such processes.

Well, it’s just a *bit* more than that but OK.