What if we got this wrong.

[Highway 4x4]

Well, in the future if an enemy wants to destroy our economy now he will know how to do it. But, no enemy has ever taken so many American lives without paying the cost. But this was, of course, an act of nature.

[ajsfla]

Following

[Newmar2856]

Originally Posted by timjet

For example as was mentioned earlier, a Navy hospital ship is sent to NYC and sits almost empty.

The Navy ship isn’t in NYC for Covid-19 patients. It’s role is to be prepared to take non-Covid-19 patients if hospitals become overwhelmed with infected people.

[DandyDon]

Originally Posted by V3600

Yes, we have gotten this beer bug wrong. Not to get too political, but so much of what's happening has been fueled by the media and politicians with ulterior motives. They're doing their best to keep us scared.

Only some hospitals may be overloaded. Nurses in AZ are being sent out of state to help out in NYC. We don't seem to have any overloaded hospitals in AZ. I've seen the videos by the major networks showing lines out the door but citizens have taken video at the very same hospitals showing no lines anywhere. I think there's been a lot of "staging" by the networks to blow this epidemic out of proportion.

As I've said all along there is nothing to panic from with this current virus. If you're already sick with something serious then you may suffer complications from C-19. But this Coronavirus is nothing different than the H1N1 in 2009 where nothing was done and we still got thru it. I'm thinking the cure is worse (killing our economy) than the virus.

I believe I saw a couple reports that the hospitals in the northern part of the state, like around Flagstaff are indeed overloaded, mostly due to the disease running wild in the Navajo Nation. I my be misinformed, but I don't think so. On the other hand, we only hve three confirmed cases here in Gila county.

[elite wa]

I think this is all based on perspective, if you lost pay or a business then we overreacted. If you are in state that currently doesn’t have a lot of cases then we overreacted. Of course if you are in hard hit state or lost a family member then we didn’t do enough.

I live in Washington state the first bad state and my wife is an ER nurse and I can tell this is no joke. This isn’t the flu when a perfectly healthy fire fighter dies from this. The flu numbers everyone talks about are always for the full 12 months which are dwarfed if you annualized the death rate. The simple matter is medical professionals are having to chose who lives and dies based upon the available equipment and your chances of survival

[Donskiman]

We will never know how many more may have died without the shut downs. We can see how out of control it is in places where social distancing is difficult, like NYC. Even with the shut downs in NYC there have still been many deaths because it may not be possible for many there to distance themselves as much as needed. Many people there don't drive and must take crowded mass transit. Many live in high rise buildings and must take crowded elevators or staircases. The effects of not being able to distance seems to have dire consequences. However, in places where distancing is almost a way of life, the virus has been very slowly creeping in. They may have much more ability to isolate infected people in rural areas.

We are still seeing a growing number of deaths almost every day. The rate of growth has slowed, but it's still been growing. The number of confirmed cases continues to rise as well. Since testing in many places has been more limited to just those in more serious condition there is still a possibility that many of those people will die.

The medical community is learning more as this continues. There has been some evidence they have been relying too much on ventilators and far too many people put on vents do not survive. New treatment protocols may result in better outcomes, but that remains to be determined.

We still have at least several more weeks of mandated closures and distancing in many places. Hopefully by then things will look much better. Even if things begin to be restored to normal, it's going to be a while before many people are going to want to be in crowded areas.

For now, we should stay the course.

[rarebear.nm]

Originally Posted by BillJinOR

Yes they are creating(printing) Money. Basic econ.... Money has no value other than what someone else will give you for it.So its not exactly "borrowing" but devaluing. ...however....
We are fortunate that the whole world is in the same situation so our $ is as good as the next country ...actually better. Unless this is a China plot to take over as the world's currency, but that's pretty deep in the woods.
Fix the testing so 350 million people can get a quick test,(right) Get a vaccine in record time. stockpile the Ventilators that have a 80% failure rate , and open up the country. Oh , and wash your hands more often!

The US government does not cover the 2 trillion stimulus by simply printing more greenbacks. That 2 Trillion has been added to the US debit, now about 25 Trillion. It will most likely be paid by selling bonds or increasing taxes. Wonder if the middle class will get stuck again?

If all the government had to do was to print more grennbacks, then why do we even have taxes or sell bonds, just print more greenbacks.....

Investors buying the US bonds will likely be using cash that might have otherwise gone to other private sector investments.

Regardless if everything opened next week or next month I will be remain very cautious maintain social distancing for a longer time. IMO rushing back is not worth the risk. I doubt that a new normal will look like the past.

[rodekyll]

Originally Posted by Newmar2856

The Navy ship isn’t in NYC for Covid-19 patients. It’s role is to be prepared to take non-Covid-19 patients if hospitals become overwhelmed with infected people.

Yes. The Navy ships are backup in case the shoreside medical facilities become overwhelmed. Then they'll be moving non-COVID patients to the ships to let the shore facilities handle infectious cases. Since the ships can be redeployed as needed, it doesn't make sense for them to treat infectious cases.

So it's a good thing that those ships are largely empty. It means that SD is working and we're holding the line. And no, it's not a waste that they are standing by. That's what they do. Where would they be otherwise, doing what?

QUOTE Highway 4x4: Well, in the future if an enemy wants to destroy our economy now he will know how to do it. But, no enemy has ever taken so many American lives without paying the cost. But this was, of course, an act of nature.

Yes, but what does our readiness for an act of nature say about our readiness for the same act of hostility? How does the source of the pathogen make any difference?

[okcnewbie]

If we measure this virus in heartache I think time will tell that we made the wrong decisions.
The data is grossly misstated. The covid-19 death data is wrong and Dr. Birx admitted as much.
We are told many, many people are asymptomatic. We can't even get the denominator right.
For the last month or so; Most elderly and high risk people have not gotten the virus without choosing to accept a certain level of risk. My own mother is very, very high risk and still wants to get out and live a little. She may only have a year left and she doesn't want to spend it locked in a room. Some of our grandparents are not going to get to see their grandkids for the last few months of their life.
All of our hand washing may not have saved one life. We don't know really. There are no surface studies of this exact virus and how much it takes to infect. The latest CDC "guesses" are that most likely it takes prolonged face to face contact with a droplet going mouth/nose to mouth/nose. (see; https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/social-distancing.html)

IMO it seems very likely that if we had all continued to work and wore masks of some kind (even homemade) that even less people would have died and we would have prevented immeasurable heartache.
The two best decisions thus far IMO; Closing flights and telling people to try hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. Those two decisions saved lives.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by rarebear.nm

The US government does not cover the 2 trillion stimulus by simply printing more greenbacks. That 2 Trillion has been added to the US debit, now about 25 Trillion. It will most likely be paid by selling bonds or increasing taxes.

I believe you are wrong about that. There are currently NO plans to raise taxes or borrowings to pay for this. The money is just being created from thin air. A very dangerous precedent for our dollar and our economy. Once politicians experience this “free money”, where will it stop?

I have an idea. If we all commit suicide, it will stop the virus in its tracks. Not too different from what we are doing to our economy.

[Charming]

How can anyone suggest how many have been exposed or have the virus when less than 1% have been tested? In the few areas where there has been any widespread testing the numbers do not support the OP's claim.

[Mknmike]

Originally Posted by photraveller

...

But was it worth nuking the economy to slow it down BUT NOT STOP the majority of deaths? Probably not, but then I wouldn't have wanted to be the one who said screw it! this XXX number of people are going to die, tough!

Steve

I agree with everything your said, other than your conclusion regarding the answer to this question.

Many people have gone to the hospital and come home alive. I believe that if the hospital systems got completely overwhelmed, we would have body bags in the Emergency Rooms ready to zip a lot more bodies up before they get any attention, whether covid-19 related or not. Once the hospitals reach capacity, they switch to a no-health-care-system scenario. If you are fine to take care of yourself if you break a leg, get cancer, or have a heart attack, or have any type of sickness, then yes, we could all just get this sickness and get it over with. I agree it would be nice to not depend on our medical system. I believe that I do depend on it though.

My sister in law’s mother was just diagnosed with breast cancer. If we did nothing to flatten the curve of covid-19, I would think that she would postpone her treatment, perhaps resulting in an early death.

If all we care about is money, then yes, get your ass back to work.

I do believe that this pandemic has resulted in an unprecedented attack on our freedoms. I think that if people could be persuaded and trusted to do the right thing it would not have been necessary. That’s not the world we live in. Go get some dollars, even if it means risking your life or the lives of everyone you encounter. Mask? Don’t wear a mask. This thing will just go away. Did we overreact? I believe the answer is no.

[okcnewbie]

Dr Peter Goetzsche is Professor of Clinical Research Design and Analysis at the University of Copenhagen and founder of the Cochrane Medical Collaboration. He has written several books on corruption in the field of medicine and the power of big pharmaceutical companies.

What he says:

Our main problem is that no one will ever get in trouble for measures that are too draconian. They will only get in trouble if they do too little. So, our politicians and those working with public health do much more than they should do.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by Mknmike

Go get some dollars, even if it means risking your life or the lives of everyone you encounter.

I think this mis-characterizes the problem. For many people it is not about dollars. It is about food, shelter and sustenance. For others, it is about the death of a business that may have been painstakingly nurtured over generations of family sweat, toil and sacrifice.

It is also about the viability of the economic system that sustains us all. How long do you think the government can shovel out trillions of dollars to people who are producing nothing, without the whole house of cards collapsing?

"Go get some dollars" is a phrase that sorely understates the very real and largely unknown dangers to our way of life that this economic shutdown has produced.