2020 Verona 36VSB Lithium Battery Install

[stanlow1]

Originally Posted by AbdRahim

Where do you get that screen material?

Building maintenance store, I tried Home Depot and did not find it there, it is 1/2 inch square mesh.

[bass player]

Ideally there should be a gap between the batteries to allow air circulation to help carry away the heat.

[casselsracin]

Originally Posted by stanlow1

I have a 2020 Valencia. I changed out the 1 8D battery and replaced it with 3 Battleborn 12 volt batteries, giving me true 300 ah (100 ah x 3). The 8D battery was a 260 ah, which really only yields 130 ah usable. I love the Renegade build quality, but I want to know who was the electrical engineer that thought 1 8D battery was sufficient to run, resi refrig, flat screen TV, a Sat receiver, furnace, 2 iPhones, 2 iPad, laptop and other misc. items for one night. One thing to also consider is when the gen starts up and the inverter starts to charge the LI batteries it will ramp up to 100+ amps of charging and the cabinet where they have the inverter located has no vents. You will need to prop open the door, otherwise the inverter will go into thermal shut down eventually. I installed a 5 inch access hole similar to the ones in the the storage bays in an attempt to vent the cabinet. The hole is there but have not tested to see what happens when it's charging.

Other than the venting I see no negatives with the Lithium Ion/BattleBorn Batteries. Well, maybe the cost. I also have the Zamp 510 (3 panels x 170w) watt solar panels installed.

Stanlow1, that is exactly what I am trying to do! I installed an additional 2 8D batteries last year, but as you mentioned, the capacity is insufficient.

So now I have priced out replacing those three with Lithium Iron batteries. However my issue is around how to protect the LI's when charging from the alternator. I'm guessing that the existing setup does not allow for monitoring of the alternator charging circuit through the solenoid when charging the house batteries with the ignition on. Hope this makes sense!

Any advise on how you did this would be appreciated.

[stanlow1]

You need a Lithium Ion battery isolator https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...ation-manager/

[casselsracin]

Originally Posted by stanlow1

You need a Lithium Ion battery isolator https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop...ation-manager/

Thanks again stanlow1. I've spent nearly 48 hours now researching the options on doing this conversion. It's easy to get lost in some of the discussions out there on this subject as well as the many ways folks have done it.

With the existing Precision Circuits BIM it allows the chassis batteries to be charged while connected to shore/genset. I cannot find any information indicating that the Battle Born BIM provides this same function. Are you aware if it does indeed do that as well?

I am guessing it is not a function as there is no 'trigger' from shore power as the Precision Circuits BIM has with the "GenSet" connection on their unit.

[jcussen]

This one is highly recommended and will supply a constant 30 amps, so your alternator will not be overworked. The built in bluetooth is handy for monitoring and adjustment.
https://www.solar-electric.com/victr...E5S0e_bhDSeboK

[stanlow1]

Originally Posted by casselsracin

Thanks again stanlow1. I've spent nearly 48 hours now researching the options on doing this conversion. It's easy to get lost in some of the discussions out there on this subject as well as the many ways folks have done it.

With the existing Precision Circuits BIM it allows the chassis batteries to be charged while connected to shore/genset. I cannot find any information indicating that the Battle Born BIM provides this same function. Are you aware if it does indeed do that as well?

I am guessing it is not a function as there is no 'trigger' from shore power as the Precision Circuits BIM has with the "GenSet" connection on their unit.

Do you have the BIM for the lead batteries on your coach now? If you do I don't think the Shore or Genset is charging the chassis batteries when you are connected to Sore or Genset as the BIM is isolating the chassis from the coach batteries charging. I know that for a fact because the battery monitor is saying that the Magnum chargers is sending 115+ amps of charge to the battery, there is no way a lead acid/gel battery can take 115+ amps of charge. The current setup I have works really well I was in Death Valley dry camping, I run the Gen until 9:00 PM and continue watching TV until 10:00 PM and the batteries are just fine in the morning. I fire up the gen in the morning for about 1 hour and leave for the day letting the solar panels continue charging the batteries. When I get back at 6:00 PM I top it off during dinner which takes about an hour. Shut it down until 8:00 top it off with the gen until 9:00 PM. I am very happy with the setup.

Hope this helps..

[truk4u]

The Precision BIM on my 2020 LE does charge while on shore or gen.

The BIM monitors the battery voltage of both the chassis and coach batteries over long periods of time. If it senses a charging voltage, it connects the two batteries together. If the charging system is drastically overburdened, the batteries will be isolated, however, if the BIM sees a long term charging of both batteries it will allow the batteries to remain connected and allow the charging system to do its job. Once the batteries have charged for one hour, the BIM will isolate the batteries to prevent overcharging, and will only reconnect the batteries for charging if one of the batteries drops to approximately 80% charge, and the other is being charged. This long term monitoring of the batteries prevents the annoying relay clicking that exists in simpler isolation modules today.

[jestew3]

Originally Posted by truk4u

The Precision BIM on my 2020 LE does charge while on shore or gen.

The BIM monitors the battery voltage of both the chassis and coach batteries over long periods of time. If it senses a charging voltage, it connects the two batteries together. If the charging system is drastically overburdened, the batteries will be isolated, however, if the BIM sees a long term charging of both batteries it will allow the batteries to remain connected and allow the charging system to do its job. Once the batteries have charged for one hour, the BIM will isolate the batteries to prevent overcharging, and will only reconnect the batteries for charging if one of the batteries drops to approximately 80% charge, and the other is being charged. This long term monitoring of the batteries prevents the annoying relay clicking that exists in simpler isolation modules today.

truk4u,


Is your BIM extremely loud? The one in our 2020 LE is very loud when it opens or closes.



Thanks


Ted

[twinboat]

BIM = Bi-directional Isolation Manager.

Bi-directional means charges both ways.

My BIM monitors the chassis battery voltage while on shore power and if it drops below 12.2 volts, it closes and charges it for 1 hour.

The units that have a generator wire, disables the isolation solenoid only when there is a charging source already on the chassis battery. Like when the engine is running.

[J W Cook]

I believe the easiest and best replacement you can go with is the Precision Circuits Li BIM they make for lithium batteries. I say this because in my case the Verona already has the Precision BIM factory installed for the gel batteries and this unit should screw right into the existing holes. Since I started this thread, I have been reluctant to spend the $4k investment in lithium (3 batteries plus new BIM). But I have mapped out what I would do if I made the leap. All of your responses and especially the threads on the Boondocking forum were helpful. Also, handy bob has been informative and a real hoot at https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/...ad-this-first/

I did add a 4th gel battery to see if this will handle the few times a year that I boondock which is usually no more than 1 or 2 nights in at a time. This was a cheap investment for me, about $300 for another battery of the same manufacturer and specs, plus new cable/connectors. It got a little tight for the 4th battery but I did not have to expand into the next storage bay for extra cells and I have good spacing between batteries and all the cable leads are relatively the same length. Since I have a brand new Verona with new batteries, it made sense to do this now so all 4 batteries match up. If this works for awhile, it buys me some time as lithium technology and pricing will surely improve.

[Idleup]

Originally Posted by J W Cook

Has anyone swapped out their AGM batteries for Lithium's? I am looking at Battleborn drop in LI group 27 that should fit right in the tray. Looks like I need to reprogram the Magnum charger and possibly upgrade the controller to ME -RC50 to get the charging programed correctly. Also a new LI compatible battery isolator so that the alternator will charge them while the engine is running.

Thanks JC

Hello - Regretfully it's not that easy to convert from AGM to lithium. Last time I checked, none of the Battle Born batteries have internal heaters, so you'll be limited charging them in cold weather. While a heater blanket will work, they are very inefficient and fail to heat the cells uniformly causing the cells to have unbalanced voltages.

You'll also have to regulate your engine alternator, since lithium has low internal resistance it will over-work the engine alternator and may cause it to fail. You'll need a new lithium battery isolater/ Charger as well. I used a Charge Mate Pro since unlike the LI-BIM battery isolater which cycles on and off, the Charge Mate Pro regulates the output and charges constantly when ever needed then shuts off prior to the lithium battery shutting down from over-charge. CMP also avoids voltage surges every 15 min when the BIM module cuts the alternator on and off at full alternator current, which is not good for the alternator, battery, or any of your electronics.

By the way, the supplied 2000 watt Magnum inverter does not have a lithium charge protocol, so you'll need a Magnum 3,000 watt unit, or any of the newer Xantrex inverters.

I converted my Renegade Verona to Lithium however I did a complete conversion and moved the batteries to a sealed compartment to get them away from the open battery compartment with salt spray in winter and summer moisture since its located right directly behind the LF tire.

Here's a few images of two systems I designed for the Renegade. The "Lithium Lite" system uses a Lithionics 300 AH battery with a Xantrex Pro 3000 inverter.
The "Lithium Super" is a larger system capable of running the roof AC unit for up to 8 hours. This design uses a Lithionics 625 ah battery and a Xantrex 3012 inverter. Both of these systems have built in heater modules between the cells which is fully automatic. They also have full Bluetooth monitoring on your phone app for checking charging, discharging, temperature, etc. These batteries are also enclosed in an aircraft aluminum case for safety and UL 1973 approved.

I'm putting together a video of these two installations and I should have it available in a month or so. I'll be sure to post the Youtube link on this forum.

Stay Safe - Mike

[billmck]

Refer back to post #5. Link goes into detail about internal heaters for lithium batteries.

[paul65k]

Originally Posted by Idleup

Here's a few images of two systems I designed for the Renegade. The "Lithium Lite" system uses a Lithionics 300 AH battery with a Xantrex Pro 3000 inverter.
The "Lithium Super" is a larger system capable of running the roof AC unit for up to 8 hours. This design uses a Lithionics 625 ah battery and a Xantrex 3012 inverter. Both of these systems have built in heater modules between the cells which is fully automatic. They also have full Bluetooth monitoring on your phone app for checking charging, discharging, temperature, etc. These batteries are also enclosed in an aircraft aluminum case for safety and UL 1973 approved.

I'm putting together a video of these two installations and I should have it available in a month or so. I'll be sure to post the Youtube link on this forum.

Stay Safe - Mike

So 8 hours of AC with 625Ah of Lithium, are you calculating the rest of the electrical load during that time as well?

SO that works out to 78A draw from the rooftop AC unit........that sure is low draw, is that a special highly efficient unit? Also what is the parasitic draw on the inverter itself?

Sounds cool and not disputing you can do it just wondering which RT unit you are using??