2020 Verona 36VSB Lithium Battery Install

[J W Cook]

Has anyone swapped out their AGM batteries for Lithium's? I am looking at Battleborn drop in LI group 27 that should fit right in the tray. Looks like I need to reprogram the Magnum charger and possibly upgrade the controller to ME -RC50 to get the charging programed correctly. Also a new LI compatible battery isolator so that the alternator will charge them while the engine is running.

Thanks JC

[jcussen]

Call Battleborn, they will help you set up your charging profile, and recommend a isolator. Great people.

[landtrawler]

I am following this with a high level of interest. Our 2020 36 VSB came with the standard 3 AGM house batteries that are totally inadequate for an all electric coach. We are one week into a 6 week trip and found this out on our first night without being plugged in.

[deputybubba]

Originally Posted by landtrawler

I am following this with a high level of interest. Our 2020 36 VSB came with the standard 3 AGM house batteries that are totally inadequate for an all electric coach. We are one week into a 6 week trip and found this out on our first night without being plugged in.

I thought the lithuim had to be kept above freezing?

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by deputybubba

I thought the lithuim had to be kept above freezing?

https://battlebornbatteries.com/are-...po4-batteries/

[chipf2]

Originally Posted by J W Cook

Has anyone swapped out their AGM batteries for Lithium's? I am looking at Battleborn drop in LI group 27 that should fit right in the tray. Looks like I need to reprogram the Magnum charger and possibly upgrade the controller to ME -RC50 to get the charging programed correctly. Also a new LI compatible battery isolator so that the alternator will charge them while the engine is running.

Thanks JC

I am also ver interested in this thread. All feedback will be appreciated as we try to upgrade the 2019 Verona LE systems.
Thanks.

[J W Cook]

Here is a quick update on my research into this install. I have talked with Woody at Renegade, as well as AM Solar and the folks at Battleborn. I have narrowed down the solution to the following:
- Replace the 3 AGM batteries with Battleborn lithium to give full 300 amps of useable power. there is room to put a 4th battery that may be added later, since a 4th can be added at anytime unlike with AGM batteries there is no issue with balancing the charge.
- The Magnum charger will need to be reprogrammed specifically to the charging needs of the lithium that differs from the AGMs.
- The battery isolator needs to be replaced to a unit that is specific to the lithium, this will change the charging profile when they are being charged by the alternator. Still need to call Precision Circuits Inc to see if the unit that is currently in the rig can be easily replaced with their LI unit. I am hoping this will be as easy as reconnecting the wires to the new unit.
- I had concerns about how the Firefly/Vegatouch Lyra control panel would be impacted by the above. I am going to call them to make sure their interface will not interfere with the changes above.
- Lastly, I started to research the solar option. Seems that the pre-wire that is 10 gauge will limit to 30 amps from the roof. Larger solar capacity will require running heavier gauge wire, which will be a mess. So probably limited to 400 watts of solar configured with 4 - 100 watts panels, 2 wired parallel and 2 wired in series.
I hope to complete my research in the next two weeks and will update at that time.

[J W Cook]

So, I have evaluated the cost and my time to install a new lithium battery system. If I were to do extensive boon docking, I would go with the Battleborn solution as described earlier. The cost of 3 lithium batteries, new battery isolator and rewire will with 4/0 wire will probably run close to $4k. I have 2020 Verona 36VSB, the bay next to the existing batteries houses the Aquahot. I would put the lithiums in that bay, looks like I could get 6 in there is I wanted to. Advantage is that the Aquahot will help keep the bay above freezing. Lithiums will discharge if frozen but will not charge up. Typical scenario for me would be to head out of Wisconsin in winter, so I would like to charge them if needed by alternator, generator, or shore power. My bigger challenge is in summer camping without shore power. I have tested the capacity of the 3 AGMs to power the fridge (no other power drain other than parasitic draw from the various systems that need to run in the background) in an overnight situation and I was pleased that I had plenty of power to do so. However, the big issue is getting them fully charged each day so they last the next night and the next and the next... I have come to the conclusion that a massive solar panel array on the roof would be required if you did not want to run your generator. Since your generator charges at 100 amps, that would be 10 - 100 watt panels going full sun. I will elect to charge my batteries with the generator during the day or alternator if moving to the next sight. I am going cheap, adding a 4th AGM to the existing bay, it will cost me about $250 with 4/0 wiring if I do the work myself. I will see if this is enough to get me by (yes, I am tight with a $). I am concerned that the AGMs will not take the full charge as fast as the lithiums, so adding the lithiums will be the next step if needed. It does not matter how many batteries you have if you cannot get them fully charged. Good luck to all of you fellow all-electric coach owners.

What I believe the big catch is

[joes2901]

Have you considered the Lifeline L16 AGM 6 volt, 400 AH batteries?

They have a 7"x11" footprint, are 16" tall, weigh 120 lbs each and can be used in any orientation except up-side down. I laid 4 down on the 11" side and 2x2 arrangement for an 800 AH battery bank that accepts all the available recharging current. I have seen up to 160 amps going into the batteries, 125 from the Magnum MS2812 charger and 34 from the Outback solar controller connected to 765 watts of solar panels. Also, they can handle the temperatures that cause the LI batteries to fail.

[J W Cook]

Originally Posted by joes2901

Have you considered the Lifeline L16 AGM 6 volt, 400 AH batteries?

They have a 7"x11" footprint, are 16" tall, weigh 120 lbs each and can be used in any orientation except up-side down. I laid 4 down on the 11" side and 2x2 arrangement for an 800 AH battery bank that accepts all the available recharging current. I have seen up to 160 amps going into the batteries, 125 from the Magnum MS2812 charger and 34 from the Outback solar controller connected to 765 watts of solar panels. Also, they can handle the temperatures that cause the LI batteries to fail.

Yes, that is a great point. I had 4 of the 6V batteries in my last coach, it was a very cost effective way to bump up the the AH and they have better charging profile than the group 27's. Since I already had 3 group 27s in the RV, I thought adding a 4th would be the cheapest solution. Your suggestion would be a great second option if we run have battery issues. I could easily put in up to 8 of these in the two bays and still be less expensive than going lithium.

[Frank Tamez]

Originally Posted by J W Cook

Yes, that is a great point. I had 4 of the 6V batteries in my last coach, it was a very cost effective way to bump up the the AH and they have better charging profile than the group 27's. Since I already had 3 group 27s in the RV, I thought adding a 4th would be the cheapest solution. Your suggestion would be a great second option if we run have battery issues. I could easily put in up to 8 of these in the two bays and still be less expensive than going lithium.

I installed 6 of the smaller Lifeline 6 volters in my all electric 18 Explorer, which is similar to your Verona. 660 amp hours now and will run all night with power to spare.

[bass player]

Something that needs to be considered before you start spending gobs of money on Lithium batteries & solar panels. Air Conditioning. No amount of Ah capacity is going to run your A/C units. Think about that. you need at least a 30 amp service to start and run one A/C. Most rigs have 2 A/C units.

If you use A/C on a daily basis your running your generator or plugged into shore power. Once you are plugged in you can run the A/C, battery charger, and all other 110 appliances depending on your incoming amperage capacity. In that scenario you only need one battery to supply 12 volt service because it is being continuously being charged.

[stanlow1]

I have a 2020 Valencia. I changed out the 1 8D battery and replaced it with 3 Battleborn 12 volt batteries, giving me true 300 ah (100 ah x 3). The 8D battery was a 260 ah, which really only yields 130 ah usable. I love the Renegade build quality, but I want to know who was the electrical engineer that thought 1 8D battery was sufficient to run, resi refrig, flat screen TV, a Sat receiver, furnace, 2 iPhones, 2 iPad, laptop and other misc. items for one night. One thing to also consider is when the gen starts up and the inverter starts to charge the LI batteries it will ramp up to 100+ amps of charging and the cabinet where they have the inverter located has no vents. You will need to prop open the door, otherwise the inverter will go into thermal shut down eventually. I installed a 5 inch access hole similar to the ones in the the storage bays in an attempt to vent the cabinet. The hole is there but have not tested to see what happens when it's charging.

Other than the venting I see no negatives with the Lithium Ion/BattleBorn Batteries. Well, maybe the cost. I also have the Zamp 510 (3 panels x 170w) watt solar panels installed.

[AbdRahim]

Where do you get that screen material?